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<p>Hi</p>
<p>It does appear that 'access aisle' is US and from watching the
video and your picture it is an integral part of a parking_bay or
parking_lane for disabled access. It follows that a parking bay or
parking lane tagged for disabled then it must follow the
regulations of that country. For very detailed mapping of such a
bay or lane then making it clear that the hatched area is for
disabled users as part of the adjoining parking bay is good, but
please do not use words with a very wide meaning, please find a
way of limiting the meaning to disabled people -
disabled_access_area is good for me.<span class="subtitle italic"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle italic">Regards</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle italic">T<br>
</span></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/05/2019 13:24, Alessandro
Sarretta wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:fad56c13-6dbb-2be8-0c7f-e0054cedd1f0@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Hi,<br>
</p>
<p>from what I understood, "access aisle" is an official term only
in the US, as described in the ADA standards
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.access-board.gov/guidelines-and-standards/buildings-and-sites/about-the-ada-standards/guide-to-the-ada-standards/chapter-5-parking"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.access-board.gov/guidelines-and-standards/buildings-and-sites/about-the-ada-standards/guide-to-the-ada-standards/chapter-5-parking</a>),
but it describes clearly (as least for a non native English
speaker like me) what is it.</p>
<p>For mapping accessibility paths for disabled persons, I think
it is quite important to have this information, so that its
presence and accessibility from e.g. the sidewalk, is well
represented (with e.g. tags describing kerbs). This picture [0]
to me describes well the reason this can be really useful.</p>
<p>To only have amenity=parking_space mapped wouldn't help in
describing and understanding the accessibility of the parking
place from the footpaths/sidewalks. <br>
</p>
<p>I'm not sure about the use of the egress areas, that seem to be
less related to access paths for disabled persons, and more
related to areas not usable by other cars...</p>
<p>Ale<br>
</p>
<p>[0]
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.access-board.gov/images/guidelines_standards/Buildings_Sites/guides/chapter5/5p15a.JPG"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.access-board.gov/images/guidelines_standards/Buildings_Sites/guides/chapter5/5p15a.JPG</a><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/05/19 12:36, Tony Shield wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:5ecf8fae-c11d-03d7-2b8b-c19c88a0d898@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<p>Hi</p>
<p>[AA] is a Mapillary picture of a typical UK disabled parking
bay, the hatched area is a what I think you are calling an
'access aisle'. Those particular disabled parking bays are
legally designated and enforced.</p>
<p>I see that tags <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"
style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi
style="white-space:nowrap"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:amenity"
title="Key:amenity" moz-do-not-send="true">amenity</a></bdi>=<a
class="mw-selflink selflink" moz-do-not-send="true"><bdi>parking_space</bdi></a></tt>
and <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"
style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi
style="white-space:nowrap"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:parking_space&action=edit&redlink=1"
class="new" title="Key:parking space (page does not
exist)" moz-do-not-send="true">parking_space</a></bdi>=<a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:parking_space%3Ddisabled&action=edit&redlink=1"
class="new" title="Tag:parking space=disabled (page does
not exist)" moz-do-not-send="true"><bdi>disabled</bdi></a></tt>
</p>
<p>are not described in the wiki but to my mind an entry for
parking_space = disabled should meet the local space and
marking scheme so in the UK a parking_space=disabled would
without further definition include an egress space. If there
is a wish to specifically mark those hatched areas then I
suggest the use of the word 'egress' .<br>
</p>
<p>[AA] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/5PAU747rlUdNrCaDtUNDuA"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/5PAU747rlUdNrCaDtUNDuA</a></p>
<p>Regards <br>
</p>
<p>TonyS999<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/05/2019 10:54, Volker Schmidt
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALQ-OR7Jv2gnah8uS4M1rjDb-eyyJXZARuPS8PfAj4LB_B+oWQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I would consider what is here described as access aisle
(according to the photo [1]) part of the parking space.
Here in Italy any parking space for the disabled has a
dedicated "access aisle" similar to the photo.<br>
</div>
<div>If you want to achieve disabled (wheelchair) routing I
would assume it to be sufficient to map the disabled
parking spaces within the car park.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> [1] <a
href="https://mycloud.snowandsnow.us/index.php/s/F2mAATCQ54SzfcT"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mycloud.snowandsnow.us/index.php/s/F2mAATCQ54SzfcT</a>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 2 May 2019 at
11:31, Tony Shield <<a
href="mailto:tony.shield999@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">tony.shield999@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Having today downloaded and read SN01360 [2] |I
disagree with the interpretation. In that document
there is only one mention of 'aisle' it being an
'access aisle' in Section 5.4 paragraph marked
Off-Street Parking -" <span
style="font-family:FrutigerLTStd-Bold;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant:normal"><b>Off-street
parking</b><span
style="font-family:FrutigerLTStd-Light;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant:normal">:
bays should be a minimum of 4800 mm long<br>
<span
style="font-family:FrutigerLTStd-Light;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant:normal">by
2400 mm wide with additional space: (1) where
bays are<br>
<span
style="font-family:FrutigerLTStd-Light;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant:normal">parallel
to the access aisle and access is available
from the side an<br>
<span
style="font-family:FrutigerLTStd-Light;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant:normal">extra
length of at least 180 0mm, or (2) where
bays are<br>
<span
style="font-family:FrutigerLTStd-Light;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant:normal">perpendicular
to the access aisle, an additional width
of at least<br>
<span
style="font-family:FrutigerLTStd-Light;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant:normal">1200
mm along each side. </span></span></span></span></span><br
style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
</span></span></p>
<span
style="font-family:FrutigerLTStd-Bold;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant:normal"><span
style="font-family:FrutigerLTStd-Light;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant:normal"></span></span>
<div class="gmail-m_-6850702075196147787moz-cite-prefix">I
read that as saying the 'access aisle' is that which
in OSM is marked as 'parking _aisle', and it leads to
a parking bay designated for disabled users, the
'access aisle' is not exclusively for the use of
disabled users. I am of the opinion that 'access' is
misinterpreted to refer only to disabled users which
is a very restrictive interpretation of the usual
interpretation of access being for anybody. I think it
is something to be very careful about.</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-6850702075196147787moz-cite-prefix">Usage
in the UK supports my interpretation - I know of many
car parks where ordinary and disabled spaces are next
to each other and accessed by a single way which has
no restrictions.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-6850702075196147787moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-6850702075196147787moz-cite-prefix">For
parking bays I think that the tag:amenity=parking
_space is clear.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-6850702075196147787moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-6850702075196147787moz-cite-prefix">Regards</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-6850702075196147787moz-cite-prefix">TonyS999</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-6850702075196147787moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-6850702075196147787moz-cite-prefix">On
02/05/2019 08:21, Alessandro Sarretta wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Hi Clifford,<br>
</p>
<div
class="gmail-m_-6850702075196147787moz-cite-prefix">On
02/05/19 00:13, Clifford Snow wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_quote">Since the off loading
area is called an access aisle, both in the
US and UK [2], it seem to me that it would
be an appropriate term to use. Would using
highway=footway + footway=access_aisle +
wheelchair=yes be a more acceptable tagging
scheme? My concern is that just adding
wheelchair=yes to a footway doesn't get at
the requirement for the width of the
access_aisle.
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[1] <a
href="https://www.access-board.gov/guidelines-and-standards/buildings-and-sites/about-the-ada-standards/guide-to-the-ada-standards/chapter-5-parking"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.access-board.gov/guidelines-and-standards/buildings-and-sites/about-the-ada-standards/guide-to-the-ada-standards/chapter-5-parking</a></div>
<div>[2] <a
href="https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01360/SN01360.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01360/SN01360.pdf</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I'm really supporting your proposal for a
highway=footway + footway=access_aisle.</p>
<p>I would match this with a wheelchair=designated
instead of a wheelchair=yes, as suggested by Mateusz
Konieczny.<br>
</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Ale<br>
</p>
<br>
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