<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 20 May 2019 at 15:53, Nick Bolten <<a href="mailto:nbolten@gmail.com">nbolten@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hello everyone, this is a late addition to this thread (I'll start a new one soon after I improve the proposal page), but I want to give an example of a crossing that has lights but no markings that is traversed by (guessing) thousands of people per day: <a href="https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=0fa511ff-b1e5-4011-b16c-d96c0c4ce8a5&cp=47.611664~-122.336542&lvl=19&dir=251.4678&pi=-22.174986&style=x&mo=z.0&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027" target="_blank">https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=0fa511ff-b1e5-4011-b16c-d96c0c4ce8a5&cp=47.611664~-122.336542&lvl=19&dir=251.4678&pi=-22.174986&style=x&mo=z.0&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027</a>. Despite having a lot of interesting art, there is no way to distinguish the crossing location from non-crossing locations via markings on the ground.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That's an interesting one!</div><div><br></div><div>Thought at first that it may have been a diagonal crossing <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedestrian_scramble">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedestrian_scramble</a>, but after a bit more searching found this:</div><div><a href="https://www.seattle.gov/transportation/projects-and-programs/programs/bike-program/protected-bike-lanes/pike-pine-mobility-improvements">https://www.seattle.gov/transportation/projects-and-programs/programs/bike-program/protected-bike-lanes/pike-pine-mobility-improvements</a> </div><div><br></div><div>If you scroll down a bit, you'll find a map that shows that Pine St between 4th & 5th Ave's is a "shared street without markings":</div><div><a href="https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2015/03/6-places-where-cars-bikes-and-pedestrians-all-share-the-road-as-equals/388351/">https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2015/03/6-places-where-cars-bikes-and-pedestrians-all-share-the-road-as-equals/388351/</a></div><div>which I guess should possibly be tagged in OSM as a highway=living_street?</div><div><br></div><div>So, you're sort of correct in that there are no defined markings, but also sort of wrong because the pretty artwork are actually markings to show that there are no markings!<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>This is topical, as crossing=traffic_signals is often claimed to imply crossing=marked.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Not in iD!</div><div><br></div><div>If you put in a crossing=marked than add that it has traffic signals, then it immediately changes to a crossing=unmarked!</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks<div><br></div><div>Graeme</div></div></div></div>