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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 25/05/19 07:32, Paul Allen wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">On Fri, 24 May 2019 at 22:12, Kevin Kenny <<a
href="mailto:kevin.b.kenny@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">kevin.b.kenny@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
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Yeah, there really are combinations around here:<br>
<br>
does it have signs?<br>
does it have traffic signals?<br>
does it have specific pedestrian-facing traffic signals?
(Some<br>
intersections just have you cross at the same time as motor
traffic in<br>
your direction rolls)<br>
are the traffic signals pedestrian- or cyclist-controlled?
(Is there a<br>
button for you to push?)<br>
does it have pavement markings?<br>
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We also have;<br>
tactile paving - a sequence of small raised bumps/dots on the paving
that can be sensed by walkers/wheelchairs<br>
audio warning - the button also has an audio output that signals
when the traffic lights state to allow pedestrian crossing, and just
before the pedestrian crossing closes.<br>
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<div>Some of those can probably be simplified away. Like the
push button. It may</div>
<div>seem like a major difference but in actuality on some
crossings the ONLY</div>
<div>purpose of the push button is to light the sign saying
"Wait" and the crossing</div>
<div>cycle is determined by some combination of timing and
traffic flow.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd say that traffic/pedestrian signals is the key factor
for crossing=traffic_signals,</div>
<div>irrespective of road decoration even if that road
decoration modifies the meaning</div>
<div>of the signals in some way (it's effectively no different
from a sign on a pole).</div>
<div>A marked crossing doesn't have traffic signals. An
unmarked crossing doesn't</div>
<div>even have markings.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<div>Pavement markings, tactile pavements, dropped kerbs, etc
are all attributes. They</div>
<div>don't turn it into a different type of crossing or
(except possibly in Poland) affect the</div>
<div>interactions between pedestrians and motorists. Nice to
map, but as a clarification,</div>
<div>not a primary feature.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I'm fine with leaving
crossing=* as it is for legacy compatibility,<br>
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but we *do* want to move toward orthogonality, since that's
what we've<br>
got on the ground.<br>
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<div>I'm not yet convinced there's orthogonality in crossing
type (except possibly in Poland).</div>
<div>A crossing where the lights mean one thing and the road
markings mean a different</div>
<div>thing doesn't strike me as being even remotely workable:
the road markings tell the</div>
<div>pedestrians they have right of way irrespective of the
lights and a green light tells</div>
<div>the motorist he has right of way. That's no way to run a
crossing.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What we may need to do is expand on crossing_ref (maybe
with a different name) to cope</div>
<div>with all the regional differences. "This is a crossing
controlled by lights which just happens</div>
<div>to have zebra stripes, but those stripes do not carry any
legal meaning and are purely</div>
<div>decorative" We almost certainly do need to distinguish
between Pelican and Puffin crossings</div>
<div>in the UK because, although they look almost identical,
the light sequences and regulations</div>
<div>differ. Etc.</div>
<div><br>
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<div>-- <br>
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<div>Paul</div>
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