<html><head></head><body><div class="ydpa9b48b61yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;"><div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">FWIW, I agree; No more tags, please, when we can manage with those that we have.</div></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Busses stop at bus-stops and the route information shows which bus-stops they serve and the times when they are due there, so these should be tagged with ID, Ref Number, etc. as appropriate. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">A platform is a raised structure, constructed to bring the passengers up to, or near, the same level as the floor in the transport vehicle (bus, tram, train). So, if there is a platform at the bus-stop, that can be mapped, just as tactile pavement might be, but needs no more tags.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Trains stop at stations and the route information and timetable show which stations they serve and when they are due to arrive/depart, so the whole area should be mapped and tagged as a station. Within the station there will normally be several platforms, which may be named "Platform 1", "Platform 2"... ...or "Platform A", "Platform B" etc. These could / should be mapped and given an name tag. Whilst trains for particular destinations may NORMALLY use a certain platform, that can vary, depending on breakdowns, delays, scheduling issues, etc. so the Platforms should not be tagged with further information about the trains / route(s) using them.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">The only potential issues I can see with my own argument above are: How will the stations be connected to the railway lines? / Do they need to be? / How does the train route relation connect lines and stations? </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I do hope that helps, rather than just making things more confusing. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Peter </div>
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<div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr">>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 20:51:13 +0900<br></div><div dir="ltr">>From: Joseph Eisenberg <<a href="mailto:joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>Subject: Re: [Tagging] Was public_transport=platform intended to<br></div><div dir="ltr">> always be combined with highway=bus_stop?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>Message-ID:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <CAP_2vPiH0G_3BFw6SaD55GA8OvTHQVVD25tk25W4SJA_pdxS+<a href="mailto:g@mail.gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">g@mail.gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">>Agreed, there are enough tags for public transport already. I don't<br></div><div dir="ltr">>think anything new is needed.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">>If there is a platform where buses stop, then there's a bus stop, and<br></div><div dir="ltr">>a platform. The platform is a physical feature, and I believe it would<br></div><div dir="ltr">>still be a highway=platform even if the bus service were discontinued.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">>The bus stop represents that public buses actually stop at the<br></div><div dir="ltr">>location to pick up or drop off passengers.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">>The ref= should go on whatever of the two features that it actual<br></div><div dir="ltr">>refers to: if it's on the bus stop sign or pole, it probably<br></div><div dir="ltr">>represents the bus stop, but it might actually refer to the physical<br></div><div dir="ltr">>platform and each different bus route that stops there might have a<br></div><div dir="ltr">>different ref=* for that bus stop.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">>Perhaps sometimes you'll have to add the ref=* to both the stop and<br></div><div dir="ltr">>the platform, but that's ok. The public_transport=stop_position +<br></div><div dir="ltr">>=platform + stop_area idea often leads to putting the same ref on 3<br></div><div dir="ltr">>different objects.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">>In all other situations (rail platforms, regular bus stops without an<br></div><div dir="ltr">>elevated platform, tram stops etc), the Refined_Public_Transport</div><div dir="ltr">>proposal is clearly simpler than using public_transport=* tags, so it<br></div><div dir="ltr">>looks like a good option.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">>Joseph<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>On 7/31/19, yo paseopor <<a href="mailto:yopaseopor@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">yopaseopor@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> please: NO MORE TAGS<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Either... can we mix all the tags of all the versions of Public transport<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> into a UNIQUE scheme for ALL kinds of transports, tagging it at the same<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> way with the same name: from electric autonomous buses to new Uber's<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> helicopters?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> A scheme has to be scalable. Can we define that? Can we design that?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> -Basic parts</div><div dir="ltr">>> -Basic tags<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> -Basic values<br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> And then... some kind of automated conversion of tags done by local<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> communities, with specific instructions at the wiki. Also tag as deprecated<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> all the old mixed stuff.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> What do you think?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Salut i mapes (health and maps)</div><div dir="ltr">>> yopaseopor<br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 10:37 AM Markus <<a href="mailto:selfishseahorse@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">selfishseahorse@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Hi Joseph<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 at 15:59, Joseph Eisenberg<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <<a href="mailto:joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> >><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> >> I still haven't seen any benefit in adding public_transport=platform<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> >> to highway=bus_stop or highway=platform or railway=platform features,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> >> and it doesn't look like the =stop_position tag is needed for routers<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> >> either, so all 3 of the main public_transport tags (except perhaps the<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> >> stop_area relation?) are rarely helpful.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I agree, and it seems that most people that took part in this long<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> discussion [1] i initiated in April about improving public transport<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> mapping agreed too.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> [1]:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-transit/2019-April/002052.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-transit/2019-April/002052.html</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> While highway=bus_stop works in most simpler cases, it doesn't work<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> very well for bus stations. For example, consider this simplified map<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> of the postbus station in Bern. [2]<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> [2]: <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Postautostation_Bern.svg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Postautostation_Bern.svg</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> It consists of seven platforms, numbered 1–7, and a mere pole on the</div><div dir="ltr">>>> sidewalk with the number 8. As highway=bus_stop and highway=platform<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> both use the the highway=* key and thus can't be combined, for every<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> platform i would need to map a highway=platform and a highway=bus_stop<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> object. But which one should get the ref=*? Both? And which one should<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> be added to the route relation? Usually highway=bus_stop is added to<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> the route relation, but for trains, it is the platform.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> A possible solution of this problem were to invent a new tag for<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> stops, which doesn't use the highway=* or railway=* key and thus can<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> be combined with highway/railway=platform (e.g. public_transport=stop;<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> or, alternatively, a new tag for platforms). However, i haven't got<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> any feedback on that idea, so i don't know whether the community would<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> accept such a change in tagging.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Regards<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Markus<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> _</div><div dir="ltr">______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Tagging mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div>
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