<div dir="ltr">OK, I have fixed my fair share of route relations, both public transport and bicycle and foot routes.<div><br></div><div>I find it easier to EDIT them, when they are sorted. To figure out there are problems with them, when they are sorted. JOSM actually does a great job with the sorting. For bicycle, foot and horse route relations it can handle forward/backward roles very well, when they branch.</div><div><br></div><div>I've been developing PT_Assistant for the parts that are missing in JOSM. It now comes with routing helper functionality, which works for bicycle routes too since this summer.</div><div><br></div><div>Instead of having to manually select, split, deselect not needed part of ways manually, you can simply direct it by pressing numbers, which correspond to segments rendered in different colours. It would be wonderful if that could be implemented in iD as well. No need to know much about the underlying relations. If you know the itinerary you want to add, you're good to go.</div><div><br></div><div>It takes into account oneway traffice and turn restrictions for the mode of transport of the route relation you are editing. So it behaves differently when you are closing gaps in bus route relations than when you're doing the same for bicycle route relations.</div><div><br></div><div>It still requires lots of JOSM atm. I'll give a demo/workshop of how it works during SotM in Heidelberg. In the mean time I'm creating videos on Youtube.</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/yoyo77777yoyo">https://www.youtube.com/user/yoyo77777yoyo</a></div><div><br></div><div>Polyglot <br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 6:57 PM Andy Townsend <<a href="mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com">ajt1047@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="gmail-m_8465811476184113790moz-cite-prefix">On 19/08/2019 17:21, Peter Elderson
wrote:<br>
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<div> the only way for the likes of me is to use detection
tools and maintenance tools to order data by hand at the
mapping level, so ordinary people can use waymarkedtrails to
get usable linear gpx-s for their basecamps, route editors,
trip planners, navigation apps and devices. <br>
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<p>You keep perpetrating this myth - you're suggesting again that
ways in routes need to be sorted before they can be used in Garmin
software and navigation devices. It simply isn't true. For about
11 years now I've been creating Garmin maps based on OSM data, and
I've been walking along local and national trails in the UK for
far longer. Never have I needed to "follow a GPX" - it seems a
very alien thing to want to do, and (as mentioned previously)
isn't actually supported by any of the various Garmin hiking GPSs
that I've used. If you want to do that - fine - but not everyone
does.<br>
</p>
<p>I suspect that "Ordinary people" will just download OSM maps from
<a class="gmail-m_8465811476184113790moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/or" target="_blank">http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/or</a> one of the alternatives -
they'll see the route on-screen and they will navigate using
that. Sometimes they'll stray from it because they've arranged
somewhere to eat or stay; they're not limited to "only walking
along the actual ways that form the official route" which you seem
to be.<br>
</p>
<p>If you have a different requirement then that's very much a
personal requirement for you; please don't try and dissuade
"ordinary people" from contributing to mapping hiking routes. If
you want to manually sort and rearrange hiking route data in a way
that doesn't prevent everyone else from contributing that's also
fine, but please don't raise the bar to contributions so high that
people can't contribute at all. You'd essentially be filling the
role that Kevin Kenny identified above as "Someone in the
community who can handle relations will then have the geometry
already established, so tidying the topology becomes a clerical
task".<br>
</p>
<p>The people we want adding hiking routes to OSM are people who've
just taken their boots off, know where routes have been diverted,
and know what the surface tags etc. should be, not people who've
never emerged from behind a PC.</p>
<p>Best Regards,</p>
<p>Andy<br>
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