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<p>To keep things in one place, I have copied my comment on the wiki discussion page together with Josephs response here. Once concepts have been conflated, once accuracy is lost, it is impossible to recreate it.</p>
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<p><span>"An international airport currently is <tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a title="Key:aeroway" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:aeroway">aeroway</a></bdi>=<a title="Tag:aeroway=aerodrome" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:aeroway%3Daerodrome"><bdi>aerodrome</bdi></a></tt> + <tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a title="Key:name" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name">name</a></bdi>=*</tt> + <tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a title="Key:iata" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:iata">iata</a></bdi>=*</tt> + <tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a title="Key:icao" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:icao">icao</a></bdi>=*</tt> + <tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a title="Key:operator" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:operator">operator</a></bdi>=*</tt>, so we can either add <tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a class="mw-redirect" title="Key:aerodrome" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:aerodrome">aerodrome</a></bdi>=<a class="new" title="Tag:aerodrome=international (page does not exist)" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:aerodrome%3Dinternational&action=edit&redlink=1"><bdi>international</bdi></a></tt> or add <tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a class="new" title="Key:international flights (page does not exist)" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:international_flights&action=edit&redlink=1">international_flights</a></bdi>=<bdi>yes</bdi></tt> + <tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a class="new" title="Key:commercial flights (page does not exist)" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:commercial_flights&action=edit&redlink=1">commercial_flights</a></bdi>=<bdi>yes</bdi></tt> + <tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a class="new" title="Key:general aviation (page does not exist)" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:general_aviation&action=edit&redlink=1">general_aviation</a></bdi>=<bdi>yes</bdi></tt>."</span></p>
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<p><span>If you tag it as aerodrome=international, you don't know if GA is supported or not. And is a one-off charter flight also "commercial"?</span></p>
<p><span>Airports don't need to have their own buildings for customs/immigration, any more than yacht harbours do. As long as a customs officer is prepared to meet the flight, or if there is some other process in place, then international flights can possibly be accommodated.</span></p>
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<p>Surely these values are orthogonal attributes, not a classifier for the whole aerodrome? Looking from the air it would not be possible to see the difference, unless you use this value as some kind of a proxy for "size" or "apparent importance". An aerodrome is an aerodrome; it MAY have commercial (scheduled?) flights, it MAY be used for cargo flights, it MAY have facilities for international flights (presence or availability of customs/immigration facilities), it MAY allow GA traffic, etc. --<a title="User:Csmale" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Csmale">Csmale</a><span> </span>(<a class="new" title="User talk:Csmale (page does not exist)" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Csmale&action=edit&redlink=1">talk</a>) 08:34, 10 September 2019 (UTC)</p>
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<dd>"Looking from the air it would not be possible to see the difference" - Right, these tags are about the purpose/function of the aerodrome/airport, not how it looks from the air or it's size on the map. This can be calculated from the area, if it's mapped as one.</dd>
<dd>The definition in this proposal makes it clear that<span> </span><tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a class="mw-redirect" title="Key:aerodrome" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:aerodrome">aerodrome</a></bdi>=<a class="new" title="Tag:aerodrome=international (page does not exist)" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:aerodrome%3Dinternational&action=edit&redlink=1"><bdi>international</bdi></a></tt><span> </span>is a subset of commercial airports: it's an aerodrome that has scheduled commercial passenger service to another country. Similarly<span> </span><tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a class="mw-redirect" title="Key:aerodrome" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:aerodrome">aerodrome</a></bdi>=<a class="new" title="Tag:aerodrome=airstrip (page does not exist)" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:aerodrome%3Dairstrip&action=edit&redlink=1"><bdi>airstrip</bdi></a></tt><span> </span>is a subset of general_aviation aerodromes which lack services and paved runways. These two tags are the ones that I'm interested in adding.</dd>
<dd>But I thought it would be reasonable to provide a tag for general_aviation aerodromes - this is pretty much the "default" value, since most aerodromes fit this definition, and "private" is widely used - as mentioned, I think we should probably add<span> </span><tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a title="Key:access" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access">access</a></bdi>=<a title="Tag:access=private" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:access%3Dprivate"><bdi>private</bdi></a></tt><span> </span>to these. While in theory "an aerodrome is an aerodrome", airports don't suddently start offering international flights without major construction projects to add customs and immigration facilities, usually in a new terminal building or addition. And an airstrip won't suddenly start offering commercial flights.</dd>
<dd>The alternative would be creating a bunch of new property tags, like international_flights=yes, commercial_flights=yes, general_aviation=yes, er... airstrip=yes? An international airport currently is<span> </span><tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a title="Key:aeroway" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:aeroway">aeroway</a></bdi>=<a title="Tag:aeroway=aerodrome" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:aeroway%3Daerodrome"><bdi>aerodrome</bdi></a></tt><span> </span>+<span> </span><tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a title="Key:name" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name">name</a></bdi>=*</tt><span> </span>+<span> </span><tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a title="Key:iata" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:iata">iata</a></bdi>=*</tt><span> </span>+<span> </span><tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a title="Key:icao" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:icao">icao</a></bdi>=*</tt><span> </span>+<span> </span><tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a title="Key:operator" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:operator">operator</a></bdi>=*</tt>, so we can either add<span> </span><tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a class="mw-redirect" title="Key:aerodrome" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:aerodrome">aerodrome</a></bdi>=<a class="new" title="Tag:aerodrome=international (page does not exist)" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:aerodrome%3Dinternational&action=edit&redlink=1"><bdi>international</bdi></a></tt><span> </span>or add<span> </span><tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a class="new" title="Key:international flights (page does not exist)" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:international_flights&action=edit&redlink=1">international_flights</a></bdi>=<bdi>yes</bdi></tt><span> </span>+<span> </span><tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a class="new" title="Key:commercial flights (page does not exist)" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:commercial_flights&action=edit&redlink=1">commercial_flights</a></bdi>=<bdi>yes</bdi></tt><span> </span>+<span> </span><tt class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><bdi><a class="new" title="Key:general aviation (page does not exist)" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:general_aviation&action=edit&redlink=1">general_aviation</a></bdi>=<bdi>yes</bdi></tt>. And tagging an "airstrip" as fuel=no, hangar=no, paved_runway=no etc. would be rather over-complicated. While having such details might be nice for pilots, it wouldn't give general map users much help. --<a title="User:Jeisenbe" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Jeisenbe">Jeisenbe</a><span> </span>(<a title="User talk:Jeisenbe" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Jeisenbe">talk</a>) 10:03, 10 September 2019 (UTC)</dd>
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<p>On 2019-09-10 11:14, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:</p>
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<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">re we going to discuss this on the mailing list, or in the wiki discussion page, or both, or what?</blockquote>
<br /> "Both" is probably the realistic option.<br /> <br /> We can't require anyone to login to wiki.openstreetmap.org to comment<br /> on this idea, though I do think the discussion there would be easier<br /> to follow.<br /> <br />
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<br /> This feature is not currently rendered by any maps that I am aware of.<br /> <br />
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">Many outback homesteads (ranches) have an [aerodrome] with more uses and also usually provides refuelling and basic primitive aircraft services.</blockquote>
<br /> This would probably be aerodrome=private, since it's not open to<br /> anyone else other than the ranch / station owners and their invited<br /> guests, I imagine? Adding access=private would be recommended.<br /> <br /> - Joseph<br /> <br /> On 9/10/19, Colin Smale <<a href="mailto:colin.smale@xs4all.nl">colin.smale@xs4all.nl</a>> wrote:
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">Point of order, also with half an eye on the "tagging governance"<br /> discussion.... Are we going to discuss this on the mailing list, or in<br /> the wiki discussion page, or both, or what? I suggest focussing on a<br /> single platform, and placing a notification on the other platform<br /> directing readers to the other platform, if you see what I mean.<br /> <br /> On 2019-09-10 10:32, Warin wrote:<br /> <br />
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">On 10/09/19 17:35, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:<br /> <br />
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">I've started a new proposal for Key:aerodrome.<br /> <br /> See <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Key:aerodrome" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Key:aerodrome</a><br /> <br /> This proposal uses aerodrome=* for classification of an<br /> aeroway=aerodrome as an international airport, other commercial<br /> airport, general aviation aerodrome, private aerodrome, or airstrip.<br /> <br /> It would deprecate aeroway=airstrip and aerodrome:type=*<br /> <br /> Values to be approved:<br /> * aerodrome=international - already common<br /> * aerodrome=commercial - new tag<br /> * aerodrome=general_aviation - new tag (default type)<br /> * aerodrome=private - already common<br /> * aerodrome=airstrip<br /> <br /> Currently the IATA code is quite helpful for finding commercial<br /> airports which offer scheduled passenger flights, but a few aerodromes<br /> with an IATA code do not have commercial flights.<br /> <br /> It would be helpful to know which airports have international flights,<br /> and the tag aerodrome=international has already been used over 1000<br /> times.<br /> <br /> aerodrome=airstrip is better than aeroway=airstrip, because an<br /> airstrip is still a type of aerodrome.<br /> <br /> aerodrome=private is already widely used, but I'm also recommending<br /> adding access=*</blockquote>
<br /> Here there are 'international' and 'domestic' airports. I think 'domestic'<br /> might be better than 'commercial'???<br /> <br /> I have no idea what a 'aerodrome=private' is. I think this could include<br /> airports used for skydiving .. so open to the public. Arr it is also on<br /> the proposal page sorry. It is a confusing value, no idea of a better<br /> term. There are also sailplane airstrips used to launch and land<br /> sailplanes. The launching may be done by a 'tug' aircraft. They can be<br /> open to the public for joy flights in tandem sailplanes.<br /> <br /> Many outback homesteads (ranches) have an airstrip for their own use. This<br /> use can be to get to the shops, the neighbours, mail deliveries, farm<br /> duties and for the flying doctor. This goes beyond the proposaled<br /> aerodrome=airstrip, in that it has more uses and also usually provides<br /> refuelling and basic primitive aircraft services.<br /> I think the reason why aeroway=airstrip is use is so that it does not<br /> render until zoomed in. Yes, a rendering issue taken care of by tagging.<br /> <br /> _______________________________________________<br /> Tagging mailing list<br /> <a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br /> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a></blockquote>
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<br /> _______________________________________________<br /> Tagging mailing list<br /> <a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br /> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a></div>
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