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<p>I'm not against natural=badlands for areas that are covered by a
non vegetated surface in an erosive context with steep slopes (as
per <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badlands">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badlands</a>). Anyway they seem to
be a more specific case than a "simple" bare soil.<br>
</p>
<p>I think that, in general, when dealing with land cover things in
OpenStreetMap, we should really try and use some knowledge from
standard definitions, e.g. Corine Land Cover CLC). I see that
there is already a page defining connections between OSM elements
and CLC classes [1]<br>
</p>
<p>In the case of <i>badlands</i>, they are mentioned as one of the
examples in <i>3.3.3. Sparsely vegetated areas</i> [2].</p>
<p>I'm quite new in discussions about land cover in OSM, but
wouldn't it be useful to add, in addition to OSM-specific tags
like natural=bare_rock, natural=shingle, natural=scree, ... a tag
to reference standard land cover classification?</p>
<p>I see that a tag <i>CLC:code </i>[3] already exists and used
more than 300000 times, but it seems to be used only in case of
imports and it is suggested (with a very weak motivation, IMHO) to
be deleted after editing those areas after import.</p>
<p>In the example of badlands, would it be useful to have both <i>natural=badlands
</i>(or any other agreed OSM-spefici tag) + <i>CLC:code=333 and/</i>or
<i>land_cover=sparsely_vegetated_areas </i>?</p>
<p>I see many useful uses coming from this.. but I could be wrong...</p>
<p>Any ideas?</p>
<p>Ale<br>
</p>
<p>[1] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Corine_Land_Cover">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Corine_Land_Cover</a></p>
<p>[2]
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://land.copernicus.eu/user-corner/technical-library/corine-land-cover-nomenclature-guidelines/html/index-clc-333.html">https://land.copernicus.eu/user-corner/technical-library/corine-land-cover-nomenclature-guidelines/html/index-clc-333.html</a></p>
<p>[3] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:CLC:code">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:CLC:code</a><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/10/19 07:31, Joseph Eisenberg
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP_2vPj-BUXpogfDfFLZeB8MpOQ5+e97AQ58F194nrpEARNOUQ@mail.gmail.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Perhaps the term “badlands” is only used in a North America. Wikipedia
has a description:
"Badlands are a type of dry terrain where softer sedimentary rocks and
clay-rich soils have been extensively eroded by wind and water. ...
They are characterized by steep slopes, minimal vegetation" and thin
soil - but not exposed bedrock, usually.
Photo examples:
1) Chinle Badlands, Utah: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chinle_Badlands.jpg">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chinle_Badlands.jpg</a>
2) Badlands near Coober Pedy in central Australia:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.alamy.com/the-badlands-area-near-coober-pedy-in-central-australia-image67285952.html">https://www.alamy.com/the-badlands-area-near-coober-pedy-in-central-australia-image67285952.html</a>
3) Drum Badlands, Alberta: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drumbadlands.jpg">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drumbadlands.jpg</a>
4) Las Médulas, Spain:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Panorámica_de_Las_Médulas.jpg">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Panorámica_de_Las_Médulas.jpg</a>
5) Valle de la Luna, Argentina:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:P1010357_1.JPG">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:P1010357_1.JPG</a>
6) Badlands National Park, South Dakota:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Badlands00503.JPG">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Badlands00503.JPG</a>
- Joseph
On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 11:14 AM Warin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com"><61sundowner@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
On 20/10/19 11:19, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">How should areas of bare soil, such as badlands, be tagged?
Currently there are documented tags for dry areas of bedrock, stones and sand:
natural=bare_rock, natural=shingle, natural=scree, and natural=sand
For tidal areas, beaches and wetlands there's also natural=beach,
natural=shoal and wetland=mud
However, there's no documented, common tag for dry areas of exposed
clay, silt or mixed soil.
natural=badlands has been used 5 times, but this is rather specific
and may not be well-known outside of North America:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=badlands">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=badlands</a>
natural=desert is common, but includes all kinds of vegetated and
unvegetated arid areas; many of these can be tagged with natural=
grassland, heath, scrub, sand, scree etc.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Desert is a climate, not a land cover nor a land form. Some deserts include 'lakes'.
The key natural has climate, land form and land cover all in the one tagging scheme, I don't think is is a good scheme and would be better separated into the individual things it is trying to tag.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
natural=clay has been used twice:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=clay">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=clay</a>
natural=earth has been used 20 times:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=earth">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=earth</a>
natural=bare_earth has 23 uses:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=bare_earth">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=bare_earth</a>
There's also natural=pebbles with 67 uses
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=pebbles">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=pebbles</a>)
and natural=gravel 90 times -
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=gravel">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=gravel</a>
But most of those could be scree or shingle, which would be more specific.
Would it be best to describe the type of soil, like natural=clay,
=silt, =earth, =pebbles, =gravel?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Better to tag specific things rather than a group.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Should mappers use surface=* without another top-level tag?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
No.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Should natural=bare_earth be used in general for clay and other bare soils?
Or is natural=badlands best to describe the specific feature of an
arid area where the bare soil is exposed due to erosion?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
I have no idea of what 'badlands' are .. from your information it is not single land cover nor a land form.
So it is a climate? A climate that causes erosion to a bare surface? No vegetation?
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
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