<div dir="ltr"><div>Please revert the roundtrip wiki change, but let's put any other wiki-changes on halt for a moment.<br></div><div>What we need to do is to find out how the roundtrip tag is being used (the wiki is suposed to document the actual use, not what the use should be) and in particular if there is a more-than sporadic use of roundtrip=yes|no for anything else than loop=yes|no. <br></div><div>It's difficult to get reliable quantitative results, but:<br></div><div>A fast overpass turbo wizard query<br></div><div style="margin-left:40px">"type:relation and route=bicycle and roundtrip=yes in Italy|France|England|USA|Bayern"</div><div>resulted in <br></div><div style="margin-left:40px">Italy: 58 lines with at best a handful of them not closed loops</div><div style="margin-left:40px">France: 358 lines with maybe 10 non-loops</div><div style="margin-left:40px">England: 25 lines, all loops.</div><div style="margin-left:40px">USA: 29, about 6 non-loops</div><div style="margin-left:40px">Bavaria 213, did not find any non-loops<br></div><div>For me this is a strong indication that the large majority of all cycle route relations in these countries that have a roundrip=yes are in fact loops and that that this is the de-facto use of the tag. <br></div><div>I think this is a strong case against any change.</div><div><br></div><div>Taginfo points in the same direction<br></div><div>12665 roundtrip=no</div><div>21774 roundtrip=yes</div><div>42 closed_loop=yes</div><div>no closed_loop=no</div><div><br></div><div>Volker<br></div><div><br></div><div>
<table id="gmail-grid-tags" style="display:table" class="gmail-autoht" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr class="gmail-trSelected gmail-trOver"><td class="gmail-sorted" align="right"><br></td><td align=""><br></td><td align=""><br></td></tr></tbody></table>
</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 18:17, Francesco Ansanelli <<a href="mailto:francians@gmail.com">francians@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>In my opinion the options are:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">- deprecate roundtrip in favour of 2 tags with a generally agreed naming convention (best at this point)</div><div dir="auto">- keep roundtrip and closed_loop with the wiki definition I did change (relations must be updated accordingly)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I read many of you asked a revert, I just want to point out that is not a resolution because tag is currently messed up<br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il ven 20 dic 2019, 15:08 Steve Doerr <<a href="mailto:doerr.stephen@gmail.com" target="_blank">doerr.stephen@gmail.com</a>> ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>On 19/12/2019 22:48, Phake Nick wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">Merriam
Webster and some other resources you have quoted are dictionary
for American English, not the variant of English used by OSM.
Posts by original author of the topic on the wiki talk page have
explained the meaning of the term in British English.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
The OED definitions read as follows:<br>
<br>
<blockquote>Originally U.S.<br>
A. n.<br>
1.<br>
a. A journey to a place and back again, along the same route;
(also) a journey to one or more places and back again which does
not cover the same ground twice, a circular tour or trip.<br>
<br>
b. Baseball. A home run. Cf. round-tripper n. 2.<br>
<br>
2. In extended use and figurative, esp. (Mining and Oil Industry)
an act of withdrawing and replacing a drill pipe.<br>
<br>
3. Stock Market (originally U.S.). The action or an instance of
buying and selling the same stock, commodity, etc., often
simultaneously. Cf. round turn n. 4.<br>
<br>
B. adj. (attributive). Chiefly North American.<br>
<br>
1. Of or relating to a round trip (in various senses). Cf. return
n. Compounds 1.<br>
<br>
2. That makes or has made a round trip (literal and figurative).<br>
<br>
C. adv. Chiefly North American.<br>
<br>
As a round trip; by travelling to a place and back again.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
Note the frequent references to 'U.S.' and 'North American'. It's an
American phrase, though now widely adopted in the UK.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Steve<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Tagging mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Tagging mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
</blockquote></div>