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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/12/19 17:18, Francesco Ansanelli
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAF0E3p5dHD---Xp70V1UES9OynYTKWqxncwzC9Ln8_tD=gSDaw@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il ven 20 dic 2019, 01:16
Warin <<a href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>> ha
scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>On 20/12/19 10:15, Chris Hill wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>I have been a native British English speaker for
about sixty years. A trip from A to B and then back
to A, either on a fully reversed route or an
alternative route, would could be described as a
round trip. There is certainly no element of a
curved or looping route required to make it a round
trip.</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
Nor is there anything in 'round trip' to exclude a
curved circular route. Would be interesting to find the
origin of 'round trip'. <br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>HTH</p>
<p>Chris</p>
<pre cols="72">--
cheers
Chris Hill (chillly)</pre>
<div>On 19/12/2019 22:48, Phake Nick wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">Merriam Webster and some other
resources you have quoted are dictionary for
American English, not the variant of English used
by OSM. Posts by original author of the topic on
the wiki talk page have explained the meaning of
the term in British English.</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">在 2019年12月20日週五
06:19，Francesco Ansanelli <<a
href="mailto:francians@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">francians@gmail.com</a>>
寫道：<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il gio
19 dic 2019, 23:00 Warin <<a
href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 20/12/19
01:16, Francesco Ansanelli wrote:<br>
> Dear List,<br>
><br>
> I have updated the roundtrip page
and created the closed loop proposal <br>
> in order to address the misuse of
the first tag:<br>
> <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:roundtrip"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:roundtrip</a><br>
> <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:closed_loop=yes"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:closed_loop=yes</a><br>
><br>
> Please let me know what you think<br>
><br>
<br>
The word 'round' implies circular. So a
'roundtrip' could be a circular <br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I'm not a mother tongue but:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/round%20trip"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/round%20trip</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div style="margin:18px
0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:16px;line-height:inherit;font-family:lato,helvetica,arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(33,37,41);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"
dir="auto">
<div style="margin:0px;padding:0px
15px;border:0px;font:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;width:360px;min-height:1px;max-width:100%">
<h2>Definition of <em
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;display:inline">round
trip</em></h2>
</div>
</div>
<div
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:16px;line-height:inherit;font-family:lato,helvetica,arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(33,37,41);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"
dir="auto">
<div style="margin:0px 0px
20px;padding:0px;border:0px;font:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><span>
<div
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;display:inline"><span
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px;color:rgb(48,51,54)"><span
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px"><span
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:bolder;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline">: </span>a
trip to a place and back usually
over the same route</span></span></div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
Oxford Dictionary (usually taken as a good source for UK
English): <span
id="m_-4561095480595731761roundtrip_sngs_2"><span
id="m_-4561095480595731761roundtrip_sng_2"><span
id="m_-4561095480595731761roundtrip_def_2">a
journey to a place and back again<br>
<br>
Nothing about 'over the same route'. <br>
</span></span></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">But also not the circular word...</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span
id="m_-4561095480595731761roundtrip_sngs_2"><span
id="m_-4561095480595731761roundtrip_sng_2"><span
id="m_-4561095480595731761roundtrip_def_2"> <br>
</span></span></span>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">
<div
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:16px;line-height:inherit;font-family:lato,helvetica,arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(33,37,41);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"
dir="auto">
<div style="margin:0px 0px
20px;padding:0px;border:0px;font:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><span>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://www.thefreedictionary.com/roundtrip"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.thefreedictionary.com/roundtrip</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<span
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">A
trip from one place to another and back,
usually over the same route.</span><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font
face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"
color="#404040"><span
style="font-size:13px"><a
href="https://www.yourdictionary.com/round-trip"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.yourdictionary.com/round-trip</a></span></font><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font
face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"
color="#404040"><span
style="font-size:13px"><br>
</span></font></span></div>
<div dir="auto">
<h2>round trip</h2>
<div dir="auto">
<div
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;direction:ltr;line-height:1.5em">
<p
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;direction:ltr;font-family:inherit;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6;font-style:italic">noun</p>
<div style="margin:0px 0px
1em;padding:0px;direction:ltr;line-height:1.25em">A
trip from one place to another and
back, usually over the same route.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Idk if it's clearer why I
tried to match the definition.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> route that
does not go from A to B and back along
the same route, it <br>
could go A to B to C and then back to A
via D. As such your rewording is <br>
wrong and does not match present use.<br>
<br>
Revert your change.<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">How about a voting?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
You may have done that before your change. <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Sorry for being "rude"... When in Rome...</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><br>
As I understand it you want to distinguish between
routes that use the same route to return to the same
place compared to those routes that return to the same
place by a different route or at least sections are
different. <br>
At present both of those are in OSMs 'roundtrip'. Would
not this information be obtained by looking at the route
as mapped in OSM?</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I think a tag may enforce it</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
So all the existing round trips will have to be deleted or re-tagged
with something else .. as they may not meet this definition. I know
the route I have tagged round trip doers not, so to avoid incorrect
data they will all have to be deleted. <br>
All the past editors who have learnt the old definition will
probably continue to use it from the old definition - meaning errors
will be constantly introduced.<br>
The editors may have top be rejigged too. <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAF0E3p5dHD---Xp70V1UES9OynYTKWqxncwzC9Ln8_tD=gSDaw@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Is there a need to
add this information? <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
By that I mean renders may determine it for themselves using the OSM
data? If so then this tag is of no real use. <br>
See <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:roundtrip#loop">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:roundtrip#loop</a><br>
<br>
A bus that goes from A to B and returns 'using the same route' will
have to turn around .. and that turning will not be using the same
route .. so it does not meet a strict definition of 'using the same
route'. <br>
<br>
There are too many problems introduced by this new definition of
roundtrip. <br>
<br>
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