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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 13.01.2020 um 21:23 schrieb European
Water Project:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK=tSVeLJJFA2umSAag_Uitw8RrzxzY0ZUXkjEZE4UbQyjfYVw@mail.gmail.com">
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>Thanks Hauke<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The namespace scheme could work. It is very elegant and
clean. The meaning of customer in container is a bit
confusing... as it can be a paying or non paying customer. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I could see : </div>
<div>free_water = <anyone,must_consume><br>
</div>
<div>free_water:container =<own,establishment></div>
<div>free_water:table=<yes/no> <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>How long does it typically take for the tag allocation
decision process to be completed? Do you have an example
wiki proposal page ? <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>To be clear "formal" approval is completely optional, documenting
what you are using is best practice, discussing what could work
and trying to find a consensus is wise.</p>
<p>Currently I see the usual problem that the discussion is trying
to solve the general problem. Is anybody actually interested in if
free water is dispensed in other than bring your own
container/bottle scenarios?</p>
<p>Simon</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK=tSVeLJJFA2umSAag_Uitw8RrzxzY0ZUXkjEZE4UbQyjfYVw@mail.gmail.com">
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<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Stuart </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
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<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 19:57:02 +0100<br>
From: Hauke Stieler <<a
href="mailto:mail@hauke-stieler.de" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">mail@hauke-stieler.de</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Tagging Free Water for cafés, bars,<br>
restaurant<br>
Message-ID: <<a
href="mailto:b247e31a-8523-a49b-0a9e-cd9a7f731cca@hauke-stieler.de"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">b247e31a-8523-a49b-0a9e-cd9a7f731cca@hauke-stieler.de</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi Stuart,<br>
<br>
> The proposal below does not seem optimal, but if that
is what is decided<br>
> we will write wiki instructions in this manner. <br>
No decisions have been made so far. Currently all these
mails just<br>
contain ideas and discussions.<br>
<br>
I'm personally a fan of the namespace scheme, the one with
the ":"<br>
separating parts of a tag. You'll find this e.g. on
addresses:<br>
<br>
addr:street=*<br>
addr:city=*<br>
addr:housenumber=*<br>
...<br>
<br>
Or also for parking situations:<br>
<br>
parking:lane=*<br>
parking:lane:left=*<br>
parking:condition=*<br>
...<br>
<br>
This semantic separation of a key creates a nice structure
and organizes<br>
this huge collection of possible tags into groups.<br>
<br>
> I still prefer free_water_refill=yes/no
free_water_table=yes/no<br>
Because the beginning of these two tags are the same, for me
personally<br>
it's a reason to change them into "free_water:..." tags.<br>
<br>
Using this scheme, I can also imagine the following tags
(just ideas,<br>
the keys and values are probably not optimal):<br>
<br>
free_water=<yes/no/customers><br>
free_water:container=<customer/supplier/both><br>
free_water:table=<yes/no><br>
(maybe more...)<br>
<br>
However, in the end, there must probably be a tag proposal
(a wiki page<br>
describing how the final tags should look like, what they
exactly mean,<br>
when to use them, what use-cases do they have, etc.).
Everybody can vote<br>
for or against the proposal, therefore it's in the end on
the community<br>
to decide what tags become "official".<br>
<br>
Hauke<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 20:01:56 +0100<br>
From: European Water Project <<a
href="mailto:europeanwaterproject@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">europeanwaterproject@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Tagging Free Water for cafés, bars,
(Martin<br>
Koppenhoefer)<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAK=tSVf_Da=AT=<a
href="mailto:gEK8N0UsxA_VbaUrryqQwVv9F6EMejdU1UYw@mail.gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gEK8N0UsxA_VbaUrryqQwVv9F6EMejdU1UYw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
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<br>
><br>
> 2. Re: Tagging Free Water for cafés, bars, (Martin
Koppenhoefer)<br>
><br>
>>>>> Martin, Italy is amazing. Apparently
there are more than 100,000<br>
fountains in Italy. On the 24th of April, we are planning a
fountain hunt<br>
in Rome with the My-D.org. We should be 20 people including
locals (just in<br>
case you live there).<br>
re: amenity=drinking_water<br>
France is complicated and the lobbies have made almost all
perfectly good<br>
water fountains labelled "non potable". Just across the
borders in<br>
Switzerland and Italy all the fountains are good to
drink......<br>
<br>
Price can be an incentive, but unless the waste producer
pays all true<br>
indirect externalities the cost will always be minimal for
PET.<br>
<br>
<br>
> 3. Re: Tagging Free Water for cafés, bars, (Philip
Barnes)<br>
><br>
<br>
>>>>>>>Philip, Yes, like the US and
France. We believe that it should be<br>
that way everywhere. No one should have to create single-use
waste to keep<br>
themselves hydrated.<br>
<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Message: 2<br>
> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 17:50:20 +0100<br>
> From: Martin Koppenhoefer <<a
href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>><br>
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"<br>
> <<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Tagging Free Water for cafés,
bars,<br>
> Message-ID:<br>
> <<br>
> <a
href="mailto:CABPTjTCLw2ikPrN1vAGBtc4x9zGuoToL0xCoxz5MpNC6G0-rOg@mail.gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">CABPTjTCLw2ikPrN1vAGBtc4x9zGuoToL0xCoxz5MpNC6G0-rOg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
><br>
> Am Mo., 13. Jan. 2020 um 17:29 Uhr schrieb European
Water Project <<br>
> <a href="mailto:europeanwaterproject@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">europeanwaterproject@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
><br>
> > While I understand your point of view, many are
trying hard to change<br>
> > legislation and might see it as more than a
marketing gimmick but rather<br>
> a<br>
> > right to be able to drink without generating
single-use waste. Belgium,<br>
> > Luxembourg, Switzerland and Italy are not obliged
to serve tap water<br>
> with<br>
> > a meal like in France where we live.<br>
> ><br>
><br>
><br>
> from a practical point of view, living in Italy, I have
not yet encountered<br>
> a place that would have refused (free) tap water. Great
thing about Italy<br>
> is that you can get free water in many places right on
the street, from<br>
> drinking fountains 24/7. amenity=drinking_water is rank
5 on Italy's<br>
> taginfo stats, almost double the amount of petrol
stations :)<br>
> <a
href="https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/italy/keys/amenity#values"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/italy/keys/amenity#values</a><br>
><br>
> In France, drinking_water is amenity rank 23, so
rightfully your government<br>
> has found other ways to provide you with water ;-)<br>
> <a
href="https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/france/keys/amenity#values"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/france/keys/amenity#values</a><br>
><br>
> Not to get me wrong, I do agree there is benefit from
political action, and<br>
> there are issues related to water. What also matters is
the actual price<br>
> you have to pay for (bottled) water. It will always be
completely unrelated<br>
> to drinking water prices, but while in Italy a bottle
of water is typically<br>
> 1 EUR (away from airports), or 2 EUR (in the
restaurant, there are<br>
> exceptions), in Germany they will typically charge you
2,50 and more for<br>
> just a glass of water. In Switzerland, they sell water
for 5 SFR a bottle<br>
> on the motorway, and 4 EUR and more is not unseen on
German motorways as<br>
> well.<br>
><br>
> Cheers<br>
> Martin<br>
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> ><br>
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> ------------------------------<br>
><br>
> Message: 3<br>
> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 18:12:56 +0000<br>
> From: Philip Barnes <<a
href="mailto:phil@trigpoint.me.uk" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">phil@trigpoint.me.uk</a>><br>
> To: <a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Tagging Free Water for cafés,
bars,<br>
> Message-ID:<br>
> <<a
href="mailto:ba9dbef6a392aaafac3f9c7fc86dcc6785ee2064.camel@trigpoint.me.uk"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ba9dbef6a392aaafac3f9c7fc86dcc6785ee2064.camel@trigpoint.me.uk</a>><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
><br>
> In GB it is the law that licensed premises provide free
drinking water.<br>
><br>
> So that , means all pubs, most restaurants and some
cafes.<br>
><br>
> Phil (trigpoint)<br>
><br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 21:02:10 +0100<br>
From: Markus <<a href="mailto:selfishseahorse@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">selfishseahorse@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"<br>
<<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] amenity=tourist_bus_parking<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAJJ-S94-nzLN9GmFq=<a
href="mailto:w_WGVqprKyRqbOBbgap8gyLS2yXQ1esw@mail.gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">w_WGVqprKyRqbOBbgap8gyLS2yXQ1esw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"<br>
<br>
Hi John<br>
<br>
On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 at 22:37, John Willis via Tagging<br>
<<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/36.31737/139.61884"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/36.31737/139.61884</a><br>
><br>
> Here is a good example of the kind of situations I have
in my area:<br>
><br>
> - a service area with two different lots, car and HGV
(bus/lorry) adjacent to each other, with a satellite
bathroom for the busses.<br>
> - service area is segregated by motorway direction, and
labeled as such. This makes duplicates of everything. They
are usually not adjacent, but are in this case.<br>
> - dedicated separated handicap parking<br>
> - separate “permissive” lots for people outside the
toll system to park and enter on foot.<br>
> - loading zones for deliveries (untagged).<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/758265853"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/758265853</a><br>
<br>
amenity=parking<br>
access=customers<br>
bus=designated<br>
hgv=designated<br>
motorcar=no<br>
parking=surface<br>
ref=🚛🚌<br>
surface=asphalt<br>
<br>
As amenity=parking currently is defined as a car park, data
users<br>
would assume that this is a car park for customers (they
likely don't<br>
evaluate motorcar=no).<br>
<br>
Even if amenity=parking weren't exclusive for cars, but for
any<br>
vehicles, your tagging doesn't mean what you likely had in
mind (i.e.<br>
a customer parking for buses and HGVs), but a designated
parking<br>
facility for buses and HGVs (not only for customers) that
other<br>
vehicles except cars (e.g. tourist buses or motorcycles) can
use if<br>
they are customers.<br>
<br>
In order that data understand your example and before we've
found a<br>
solution for parkings for multiple vehicle classes, i would
recommend<br>
to tag it as follows:<br>
<br>
amenity=parking<br>
access=no<br>
bus=customers<br>
hgv=customers<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Markus<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer<br>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of Tagging Digest, Vol 124, Issue 78<br>
****************************************<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
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