<div dir="ltr">In Nederland, St Jacobs Routes (Camino's to Compostela) are not waymarked/signposted/trailblazed.<div><br></div><div>Several organisations claim to be THE authority, describing main and alternative routes, selling organized pilgrimage or guides and travel books, checking the described roads and passages on the ground, and offering gpx-tracks.</div><div><br></div><div>We do not map those, because they are not visible on the ground. Only when a choice has been made and the route (probably with a number of alternative routes) is waymarked will we map them, because they can be seen on the road. Until then it's not a real object. Anyone can make up his or her own camino. However, when you talk to any one of the organisations, they will insist that their routes are fixed. </div><div><br></div><div>I very strongly prefer only to map routes according to real markings on the ground, however scarce.</div><div><br></div><div>Best, Peter Elderson<br></div><div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op ma 13 jan. 2020 om 19:21 schreef brad <<a href="mailto:bradhaack@fastmail.com" target="_blank">bradhaack@fastmail.com</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 1/12/20 4:23 PM, Joseph Eisenberg
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="auto">Paris is the capital of France because it has
all the main government facilities: the legislature, the
executive, the judiciary and most ministries.</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Routes that are mapped in Openstreetmap need to be
signed or marked in a visible way. Otherwise every Stava user
will add their favorite training loop to the map as a running
route or road cycling route.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Joseph</div>
</blockquote>
I think this is an overreaction. There are many routes that meet
the wiki description (and my own reasonableness test) that are not
signed or marked. I do see many routes in my area that should not
be routes, but that is only a minor annoyance. <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:02
AM Florimond Berthoux <<a href="mailto:florimond.berthoux@gmail.com" target="_blank">florimond.berthoux@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Asking me how do I know that Eurovelo 3 is for
tourism or bicycle trekking is like asking me how do I
know that Paris is the capital of France.</div>
<div>« Is there a sign saying that Paris is the capital of
France? May be we should remove that tag, don't you
think?... »<br>
</div>
<br>
You don't need sign post to have a route, do you have a
sign post at the intersection of those routes ?<br>
<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/45.1485/-4.1705" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/45.1485/-4.1705</a><br>
<div>I doubt that.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is how the Wiki define a route:<br>
« A <strong>route</strong> is a customary or regular
line of passage or travel, often predetermined and
publicized. Routes consist of paths taken repeatedly by
people and vehicles: a ship on the North Atlantic route,
a car on a numbered road, a bus on its route or a
cyclist on a national route. »</div>
<div><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So to paraphrase this for road biking route :</div>
<div>« A road bicycle <strong>route</strong> is a
customary or regular line of passage or travel, often
predetermined and publicized as such. Road bicycle
routes consist of paths taken repeatedly by road
cyclist. »</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And if you don't know then don't tag it and don't
manage it.<br>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
Le sam. 11 janv. 2020 à 23:35, Joseph Eisenberg <<a href="mailto:joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com" target="_blank">joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com</a>>
a écrit :<br>
><br>
> > I am not against distinguishing more types of
cycling routes, I am all for it, as long as it's
verifyable, mappable with clear tagging, and manageable.<br>
><br>
> +1<br>
><br>
> I started using Openstreetmap because I wanted to add
touring routes<br>
> and recreational bike routes in RideWithGPS and then
found out that<br>
> <a href="http://ridewithgps.com" target="_blank">http://ridewithgps.com</a> uses
Openstreetmap data which I could edit. And<br>
> I get to work and take kids to school and shop by
bike - I haven't<br>
> owned a car for 9 years.<br>
><br>
> So I would love to have more information about what
streets and roads<br>
> are best for getting from point A to B, and which
ones are nice for<br>
> training rides and which ones are fun for tours.<br>
><br>
> But tags have to be verifiable: if the next mapper
can't confirm that<br>
> a tag as right, the data in Openstreetmap will not be
maintained<br>
> properly. Subjective tags cannot work.<br>
><br>
> I have seen this happen: before I mapped here, I used
to try to<br>
> improve the bike routes in Portland Oregon for Google
Maps. But since<br>
> there was no definition of a "preferred" bicycle
street, and it was<br>
> hard to delete a preferred route once it was added,
the bike layer was<br>
> full of disconnected segments. Some were from old
city maps of bike<br>
> routes, some were based on the personal preference of
the mapper, and<br>
> some were actually signed or marked on the ground,
but you couldn't<br>
> tell them apart.<br>
><br>
> If there is a sign or marking that specifies that a
certain route is<br>
> designed for mountain bikes or for bike racing, then
sure, you can tag<br>
> that. But most bike routes do not have anything to
specify that they<br>
> are more for commuting or more for recreation, and in
that case we<br>
> can't tag the distinction.<br>
><br>
> Fortunately, database users (like routing
applications) can look at<br>
> other Openstreetmap data, like surface=* tags on
ways, and external<br>
> data like elevation models, to determine if a route
is a difficult<br>
> single-track trail through the hills versus a flat
paved path along a<br>
> canal, and use this to help route cyclists
appropriately.<br>
><br>
> - Joseph Eisenberg<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Florimond Berthoux</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Tagging mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Tagging mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>