<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi all,</div><div><br></div><div>According to this discussion, I tried to update tunnel=flooded and waterway=pressurised to make things more clear.</div><div><br></div><div>Feel free to improve if I made any mistake, examples list are always open to add new situations if you find relevant ones.</div><div><br></div><div>All the best</div><div><br></div><div>François<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 23 mars 2020 à 01:30, Joseph Eisenberg <<a href="mailto:joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com">joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">"To me 'tunnel=flooded' means that is cannot really be used for/by<br>
anything other than the fluid in it due to the very small amount of<br>
space left, if any. "<br>
<br>
Yes, that is what I would have guessed, too.<br>
<br>
I would have guessed that a canal tunnel which is passable by boats<br>
would be tunnel=yes, whether or not there is a side-path.<br>
<br>
(This is the problem with proposals that introduce several new tags<br>
all at once. I would have been better to discuss tunnel=flooded<br>
separately, so that this problem would not have occured.)<br>
<br>
-- Joseph Eisenberg<br>
<br>
On 3/23/20, Warin <<a href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com" target="_blank">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> On 23/3/20 9:08 am, Volker Schmidt wrote:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 at 19:09, François Lacombe<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com" target="_blank">fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com" target="_blank">fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hi Volker,<br>
>> ...<br>
>> Fully disposed to make any improvement to wiki according to those<br>
>> points.<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks, Francois.<br>
>><br>
>> There is possibly a language bias (error?) in the use of tunnel=flooded.<br>
>> I am not a native speaker, but "flooded" to me means at least "more<br>
>> water than normal", and from this discussion it seems that we are<br>
>> talking about the normal presence of water in these structures.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Normal? No I don't think so. Some 'tunnels may be designed only to carry<br>
> water and have no real room for anything else. I am thinking of hydo<br>
> schemes where tunnels are used<br>
><br>
> To me 'tunnel=flooded' means that is cannot really be used for/by<br>
> anything other than the fluid in it due to the very small amount of<br>
> space left, if any.<br>
><br>
> Humm ... a smaller description? '"tunnel=flooded' ... full or nearly<br>
> full of fluid so that the tunnel cannot be used for anything else' ???<br>
><br>
>> Tag use tunnel=flooded: 2 in the UK,<br>
>> >> Many, if not the majority of the UK Inland Waterways canals have no<br>
>> tow-path.<br>
>> > Then tunnel=flooded is more appropriate.<br>
>> No, definitely not. These tunnels are not "flooded" at all, the water<br>
>> level in them is carefully controlled<br>
>> (The original method of powering the boats in these canals were men<br>
>> laying on their back and "walking" with their feet upwards along the<br>
>> tunnel ceiling. The French canals, being constructed later, generally<br>
>> did have tow-paths also in the tunnels see for example the<br>
>> Tunnel_de_Mauvages<br>
>> <<a href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffr.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTunnel_de_Mauvages&psig=AOvVaw3UK-_RmcKBM_5fKTGMZyjW&ust=1584997257128000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA0QjhxqFwoTCOijlIn9rugCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAS" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffr.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTunnel_de_Mauvages&psig=AOvVaw3UK-_RmcKBM_5fKTGMZyjW&ust=1584997257128000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA0QjhxqFwoTCOijlIn9rugCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAS</a>>.<br>
>><br>
>> I remember when I was a boy my father showed me the tractors pulling<br>
>> the ships through the old tunnel near Arzwiller in Alsace on the same<br>
>> canal)<br>
>> They are uniformly tagged (correctly) as waterway=canal and tunnel=yes.<br>
>> I mentioned them in the context that tunnel=yes does not imply a<br>
>> tow-path.<br>
>><br>
>> I had glanced at yourHydropower water supplies proposal, but I think I<br>
>> failed to intervene on three specific points:<br>
>><br>
>> 1. The first one are the inverted siphons (botte sifone<br>
>> <<a href="https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botte_sifone" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botte_sifone</a>>, pont-siphon<br>
>> <<a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont-siphon" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont-siphon</a>>), which are<br>
>> gravity-pressurised always-water-filled sections of non-navigable<br>
>> canals. I usually map them as culverts, and i have just started to<br>
>> add the new tag culvert=inverted_siphon to the first three of them.<br>
>> 2. The second point is that the distinction between water-filled and<br>
>> part-filled water conducts is problematic: culverts that are<br>
>> frequently used to conduct free-flowing drains, ditches,<br>
>> irrigation canals, freshwater canals under roads can be anything<br>
>> from empry to fully filled (and slightly pressurised) depending on<br>
>> precipitations.<br>
>> 3. waterway=pressurised cannot be used together with waterway=canal<br>
>> for the inverted-siphon situation<br>
>><br>
>> Volker<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
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