<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><br><br><div dir="ltr">sent from a phone</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On 8. Apr 2020, at 12:35, Steve Doerr <doerr.stephen@gmail.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Whether that's what it means in OSM is another matter.</div></blockquote><br><div><br></div><div>While building=public seems defined, I have difficulties with building=civic, which is according to the wiki</div><div><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building#Civic.2FAmenity">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building#Civic.2FAmenity</a></div><div><br></div><div>“for any civic amenity” (and explicitly lists e.g. “toilets”). In OpenStreetMap, amenity is used for the service that is provided, not for the building. And the term “civic” isn’t defined (I could imagine different people thinking about different things for “civic”). This was introduced in 2014, while the short definition since the page was created states: </div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dcivic">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dcivic</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><table class="description valuedescription" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-size: 14px; font-family: sans-serif; margin: 2px 0px 2px 2px; clear: right; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(37, 37, 37); border: 1px solid rgb(170, 170, 170); width: 210px; padding: 2px 0.5em;"><tbody><tr class="d_description content"><td>A building hosting any civic amenity (town hall, library, swimming pool).</td></tr></tbody></table></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Now, this is better as it names the building and has a list that is less questionable, but also where most of us wouldn’t probably add “toilets” (as they are only examples and no definition of civic amenity is given, it remains still unclear).</div><div><br></div><div>For example I’m asking myself whether structures like wastewater treatment or recycling centers would qualify as building=civic. Or shopping malls? Cinemas? Private gyms? Power stations? Universities? Restaurants?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I’ve looked at random internet dictionaries, Cambridge doesn’t have a lemma for civic building and defines civic “<span style="caret-color: rgb(29, 42, 87); color: rgb(29, 42, 87); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, "Hiragino Sans GB", "Microsoft YaHei", "WenQuanYi Micro Hei", sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"> of or belonging to a </span><a class="query" href="https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english-italian/city" title="city" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(29, 42, 87); cursor: pointer; caret-color: rgb(29, 42, 87); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, "Hiragino Sans GB", "Microsoft YaHei", "WenQuanYi Micro Hei", sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">city</a><span style="caret-color: rgb(29, 42, 87); color: rgb(29, 42, 87); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, "Hiragino Sans GB", "Microsoft YaHei", "WenQuanYi Micro Hei", sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"> or </span><a class="query" href="https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english-italian/citizen" title="citizen" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(29, 42, 87); cursor: pointer; caret-color: rgb(29, 42, 87); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, "Hiragino Sans GB", "Microsoft YaHei", "WenQuanYi Micro Hei", sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">citizen</a>”</div><div>(not very helpful I’d say)</div><div><br></div><div>lexico has a definition that would make sense as hypothetical intention of the OpenStreetMap tag:</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.lexico.com/definition/civic">https://www.lexico.com/definition/civic</a></div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size: 16px; caret-color: rgb(42, 42, 42); color: rgb(42, 42, 42); font-family: "Open Sans", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Relating to a city or town, especially its administration; municipal.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 16px; caret-color: rgb(42, 42, 42); color: rgb(42, 42, 42); font-family: "Open Sans", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 16px; caret-color: rgb(42, 42, 42); color: rgb(42, 42, 42); font-family: "Open Sans", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Collins says </span><span style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: "Open Sans", sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">You use </span><span class="hi rend-b" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; word-wrap: break-word; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-weight: bold; font-family: "Open Sans", sans-serif; color: rgb(193, 45, 48);">civic</span><span style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: "Open Sans", sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> to </span><a href="https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/describe" title="Definition of describe" class="ref type-def" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; word-wrap: break-word; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: dashed; border-bottom-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.6); box-sizing: border-box; font-family: "Open Sans", sans-serif; color: inherit; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;">describe</a><span style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: "Open Sans", sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> people or things that have an </span><a href="https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/official" title="Definition of official" class="ref type-def" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; word-wrap: break-word; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: dashed; border-bottom-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.6); box-sizing: border-box; font-family: "Open Sans", sans-serif; color: inherit; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;">official</a><span style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: "Open Sans", sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> </span><a href="https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/status" title="Definition of status" class="ref type-def" style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; word-wrap: break-word; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: dashed; border-bottom-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.6); box-sizing: border-box; font-family: "Open Sans", sans-serif; color: inherit; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;">status</a><span style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: "Open Sans", sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> in a town or city.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: "Open Sans", sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: "Open Sans", sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">IMHO the building=civic page should be discussed and improved, ideally by giving a definition rather than a list of examples </span></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers Martin </div></body></html>