<html><head></head><body><div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;"><div>Hi,</div>
<div>the difference would be that traffic signals which control a junction but a crossing too, can have buttons for pedestrians as well as traffic signals which do only control a crossing. At least here in Germany. With looking at button_operated, you cannot clear whether the traffic lights are controlling a crossng only and not a junction.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Soon I will add some photos you mentioned it would be a bit clearer maybe then.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Lukas</div>
<div>
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px; padding: 10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid #C3D9E5; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 14. April 2020 um 11:03 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Volker Schmidt" <voschix@gmail.com><br/>
<b>An:</b> "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" <tagging@openstreetmap.org><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div>
<div>What's the difference between</div>
<div> </div>
<div>highway=traffic_signals plus button_poperated=yes</div>
<div>and</div>
<div>highway=traffic_signals plus traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand</div>
<div> </div>
<div>?</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 at 02:55, Jarek Piórkowski <<a href="mailto:jarek@piorkowski.ca" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:jarek@piorkowski.ca'; return false;" target="_blank">jarek@piorkowski.ca</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.8ex;border-left: 1.0px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1.0ex;">On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 12:56, Paul Allen <<a href="mailto:pla16021@gmail.com" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:pla16021@gmail.com'; return false;" target="_blank">pla16021@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br/>
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 17:43, <<a href="mailto:Lukas-458@web.de" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:Lukas-458@web.de'; return false;" target="_blank">Lukas-458@web.de</a>> wrote:<br/>
>> The second goal my proposal wants to message is to deprecate tagging "crossing=traffic_signals" together with "highway=traffic_signals" on the same node. Especially if you're saying this is a full crossing mapped. It breaks the highway=crossing - tagging scheme we use for all other types of crossing (except crossing=no). Some mappers use "crossing=traffic_signals" together with "highway=traffic_signals" on the same node als a shortcut for "lane traffic signal" and "foot traffic signal" because it is rendered as two traffic signals in JOSM. Or for mapping traffic signals for crossing cyclists. But I think in every case it is better to use two different (nearby) nodes for that.<br/>
><br/>
> Am I misunderstanding you? You propose using two nearby nodes for<br/>
> <a href="https://goo.gl/maps/3Sg5ndQ2ZCMBN9uy9" target="_blank">https://goo.gl/maps/3Sg5ndQ2ZCMBN9uy9</a> You can just see the yellow<br/>
> pedestrian-control box at the left. It controls the crossing (marked with studs)<br/>
> going from left to right across the picture. The same lights that tell motorists<br/>
> to stop for pedestrians also control traffic flow at the T junction ahead. The<br/>
> same set of lights is both a highway traffic signal and a crossing traffic signal.<br/>
> This sort of thing is not uncommon in the UK, with the same set of lights<br/>
> being used for both purposes.<br/>
<br/>
My understanding was that traffic signals=crossing on demand is meant<br/>
for things like <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2771622922" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2771622922</a> (<br/>
<a href="https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/2oyFQXVHvy2r-XypCZTECg" target="_blank">https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/2oyFQXVHvy2r-XypCZTECg</a> ) however I<br/>
might be wrong? Or <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1416834957" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1416834957</a> (<br/>
<a href="https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/DkuEFqSbOuQPGMtABsFFCA" target="_blank">https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/DkuEFqSbOuQPGMtABsFFCA</a> ) including<br/>
cyclists? (Esri is good for satellite imagery of these)<br/>
<br/>
Personally I find highway=traffic_signals + crossing=traffic_signals<br/>
on one node sufficient for these crossings.<br/>
<br/>
Currently the wiki page says "traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand makes<br/>
it easy to mark all traffic lights which do only control a crossing",<br/>
again I personally find highway=traffic_signals +<br/>
crossing=traffic_signals sufficient for that - maybe I'm missing<br/>
something. Of course any new tags can be proposed. But I would suggest<br/>
adding some real-world photos of crossings that would be tagged with<br/>
crossing_on_demand to the wiki page.<br/>
<br/>
--Jarek<br/>
<br/>
_______________________________________________<br/>
Tagging mailing list<br/>
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org'; return false;" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br/>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a></blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></body></html>