<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    If a refugee site has a well established name (and, unfortunately,
    there are many examples all over the world), I don't see why it
    can't have a "place" tag.<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Às 18:24 de 17/04/2020,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lukas-458@web.de">Lukas-458@web.de</a> escreveu:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:trinity-fdb0d0a6-fdd6-4113-842a-8f1988a3ba0c-1587158686000@3c-app-webde-bap38">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
        <div>Hi,</div>
        <div>my question is whether this then rather would be something
          for the "place" tag? Or did we maybe have that discussion
          already?</div>
        <div>
          <div> </div>
          <div>--Lukas</div>
          <div> 
            <div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px; padding:
              10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid #C3D9E5;
              word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
              -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
              <div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag,
                17. April 2020 um 18:28 Uhr<br>
                <b>Von:</b> "Manon Viou" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:m_viou@cartong.org"><m_viou@cartong.org></a><br>
                <b>An:</b> "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org"><tagging@openstreetmap.org></a><br>
                <b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC -
                Refugee Site Location</div>
              <div name="quoted-content">
                <div>
                  <div>Hello everyone,</div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div>It seems I haven't been very clear in my
                    explanations; I sometimes have a bit of trouble
                    choosing the right word (especially in English). And
                    I think the “small”/”large” discussion is going the
                    wrong direction…</div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div>The new tag we want to propose is to map refugee
                    camps or as it’s seems better to say in English now
                    : refugee sites. So we want to map <strong>human
                      settlement</strong>.</div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div>The social_facility=shelter tag is very suitable
                    to map single or individual building or a small
                    group of buildings like a refugee center, an
                    accommodation center or a care and hosting center
                    for refugees.</div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div>But (according to many people now)  the
                    social_facility=shelter tag is not suitable to map
                     refugee camps that are human settlements, 
                    populated places where hundreds or  thousands people
                    live.</div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div>That’s why we propose to create a new value for
                    the amenity tag : amenity=refugee_site, to map human
                    settlement where refugees can find protection.</div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div>kind regards, </div>
                  <div>Manon</div>
                  <div> </div>
                </div>
                <blockquote>Le 17 avril 2020 à 13:03, Warin
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com"><61sundowner@gmail.com></a> a écrit :<br>
                   
                  <div class="ox-f86b873e6f-moz-cite-prefix">On 17/4/20
                    5:29 am, Manon Viou wrote:</div>
                  <blockquote>
                    <div>Hello, </div>
                    <div>According to Martin and Warin, the difference
                      between large and small refugee site is not clear
                      enough, <br>
                      Martin suggested to use population capacity, for
                      instance less than 200 people fro small refugee
                      site, </div>
                    <div>Warin suggested to use number of square
                      meters, </div>
                    <div>For what I have observed, small facilities
                      sheltering refugee (for instance: refugee centers,
                      accommodation center, care and hosting center,
                      church) are not exactly what we can call refugee
                      site. the difference, beyond the number of
                      building, number of population or square meter, is
                      quite obvious.</div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <p> </p>
                  <p>?? How is it 'obvious'???</p>
                  <p> </p>
                  <p>I have no idea of what that 'obvious' thing is!</p>
                  <p> </p>
                  <p> </p>
                  <blockquote>
                    <div>Is it really necessary to set a precise rule ?</div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <p> </p>
                  <p>At the moment there is nothing that can be used to
                    distinguish between the two.</p>
                  <p>Suggestion have been made on the number of
                    buildings, number of people and the area.</p>
                  <p> </p>
                  <p>Please tell us how you distinguish between them.</p>
                  <p> </p>
                  <blockquote>
                    <div>I would rather suggest to share some example
                      (like the ones mentioned above) in order to help
                      contributors to decide if it rather an
                      amenity=refugee_site or a
                      social_facility=shelter. </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <p> </p>
                  <p>Examples are fine. But there must be a statement in
                    words of the difference between them.</p>
                  <blockquote>
                    <div>Regards, </div>
                    <div>Manon</div>
                    <blockquote>Le 16 avril 2020 à 02:16, Warin <a
                        class="ox-f86b873e6f-moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                        href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com"
                        onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com';
                        return false;" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"><61sundowner@gmail.com></a>
                      a écrit :<br>
                       
                      <div
                        class="ox-f86b873e6f-ox-f3b1469447-moz-cite-prefix">On
                        16/4/20 1:23 am, Manon Viou wrote:</div>
                      <blockquote>
                        <div>Thanks Martin, yes, refugee sites should
                          always be temporary even if, as you said, some
                          turn to be very long term places. That's why
                          we do not suggest to add temporary/permanent
                          options. </div>
                        <div>Manon</div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <p> </p>
                      <p>In which case the description for
                        amenity=social_facility +
                        social_facility=shelter is not correct.</p>
                      <p> </p>
                      <p>If it is to be done on area then specify the
                        number of square meters rather than the number
                        of buildings???</p>
                      <p>Buildings can be a of different sizes and
                        capacities. An area could be more consistent as
                        to the number of people.</p>
                      <p>Imagery may not be up to date so counting
                        buildings may not be possible. </p>
                      <p> </p>
                      <blockquote>
                        <blockquote>
                          <div>Le 15 avril 2020 à 11:36, Martin
                            Koppenhoefer < <a
                              href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com"
                              onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com';
                              return false;" target="_blank"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>>
                            a écrit :</div>
                          <div> </div>
                          <div>sent from a phone</div>
                          <div> </div>
                          <blockquote>
                            <div>On 15. Apr 2020, at 01:13, Warin < <a
                                href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com"
                                onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com';
                                return false;" target="_blank"
                                moz-do-not-send="true">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>>
                              wrote:</div>
                            <div> </div>
                            <div>I would think amenity=refugee_site is
                              an area set aside for the non-temporary
                              residential use of refugees</div>
                          </blockquote>
                          <div> </div>
                          <div>maybe I’m a dreamer, but I would expect
                            all refugee related features to be
                            “temporary”, even if we are talking about
                            relatively long periods of time</div>
                          <div> </div>
                          <div>Cheers Martin</div>
                        </blockquote>
                         
                        <pre class="ox-f86b873e6f-ox-f3b1469447-moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="ox-f86b873e6f-ox-f3b1469447-moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org'; return false;" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="ox-f86b873e6f-ox-f3b1469447-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
                      </blockquote>
                      <p> </p>
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      Tagging mailing list<br>
                      <a class="ox-f86b873e6f-moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                        href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org"
                        onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org';
                        return false;" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
                      <a class="ox-f86b873e6f-moz-txt-link-freetext"
                        href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a></blockquote>
                    <div class="ox-f86b873e6f-default-style"><br>
                       </div>
                    <div class="ox-f86b873e6f-io-ox-signature">
                      <p class="ox-f86b873e6f-default-style"><a
                          href="http://www.cartong.org" target="_blank"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"><img alt="CartONG-
                            Humanitarian mapping and information
                            management"
                            src="http://cartong.org/sites/cartong/files/signature_logo_slogan.png"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"></a></p>
                      <p style="color: rgb(100,130,130);font-family:
                        Verdana;font-weight: bold;">Manon Viou</p>
                      <p style="color: rgb(100,130,130);font-family:
                        Verdana;font-weight: bold;"><strong>Coordinatrice
                          projet Missing Maps</strong></p>
                      <p class="ox-f86b873e6f-default-style"><span
                          style="margin: 0.0px;font-family: Verdana;"><img
                            alt="Email:"
                            src="http://cartong.org/sites/cartong/files/signature_mail.png"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"> <a
                            href="mailto:m_viou@cartong.org"
                            onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:m_viou@cartong.org';
                            return false;" style="text-decoration:
                            none;" target="_blank"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">m_viou@cartong.org</a>
                          |</span> <span style="margin:
                          0.0px;font-family: Verdana;"><img alt="Skype:"
src="http://cartong.org/sites/cartong/files/signature_skype.png"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"> manon.viou</span></p>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <p> </p>
                  _______________________________________________<br>
                  Tagging mailing list<br>
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a></blockquote>
                <div class="default-style"><br>
                   </div>
                <div class="io-ox-signature">
                  <p class="default-style"><a
                      href="http://www.cartong.org" target="_blank"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"><img alt="CartONG-
                        Humanitarian mapping and information management"
src="http://cartong.org/sites/cartong/files/signature_logo_slogan.png"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"></a></p>
                  <p style="color: rgb(100,130,130);font-family:
                    Verdana;font-weight: bold;">Manon Viou</p>
                  <p style="color: rgb(100,130,130);font-family:
                    Verdana;font-weight: bold;"><strong>Coordinatrice
                      projet Missing Maps</strong></p>
                  <p class="default-style"><span style="margin:
                      0.0px;font-family: Verdana;"><img alt="Email:"
                        src="http://cartong.org/sites/cartong/files/signature_mail.png"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"> <a
                        href="mailto:m_viou@cartong.org"
                        onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:m_viou@cartong.org';
                        return false;" style="text-decoration: none;"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">m_viou@cartong.org</a>
                      |</span> <span style="margin: 0.0px;font-family:
                      Verdana;"><img alt="Skype:"
                        src="http://cartong.org/sites/cartong/files/signature_skype.png"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"> manon.viou</span><br>
                    <span style="margin: 0.0px;font-family: Verdana;"><img
                        alt="Phone:"
                        src="http://cartong.org/sites/cartong/files/signature_phone.png"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"> +33 (0)4 79 26 28 82 |</span>
                    <span style="margin: 0.0px;font-family: Verdana;"><img
                        alt="Mobile:"
                        src="http://cartong.org/sites/cartong/files/signature_mobile.png"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"> +33 (0)7 83889839</span></p>
                  <p style="font-family: Verdana;"><img alt="Address:"
                      src="http://cartong.org/sites/cartong/files/signature_location.png"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"> Chambéry, France - Lon:
                    05°55'24''N | Lat: 45°30'20''E</p>
                </div>
                _______________________________________________ Tagging
                mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a> <a
                  href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a></div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>