<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/4/20 5:31 am, Florimond Berthoux
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAELphJCF=3+iwqMNh9A5KNoh4TDzh_UwYUmwe=NCZ5iaUyEY2g@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Hidde, welcome,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The wiki definition is « Used to indicate that a particular
location is known by a particular name, to indicate what sort
of "place" it is. A place tag should exist for every
significant human settlements (city, town, suburb, etc.) and
also for notable unpopulated, named places. »</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So place is used to precise that :</div>
<div>1. there is place at this position or on this area<br>
</div>
<div>2. it has a name</div>
<div>3. to define what kind of place<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So by the definition I see no issue of having place without
a name tag, as long as it has a name :)</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Errr If it has a name, tag it. If you don't know its name then how
do you know it is a place? <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAELphJCF=3+iwqMNh9A5KNoh4TDzh_UwYUmwe=NCZ5iaUyEY2g@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is different than landuse for instance :</div>
<div>A farm has the landuse farmyard, and may have other landuse
like greenhouse_horticulture, plant_nursery, orchard, meadow,
...</div>
<div>A barn alone or with some other building in the middle of a
meadow can has landuse=farmyard but it’s not a farm, it could
has a place=locality if it has a name.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>If a building has a name then use the name tag on the building,
do not add a tag place=* to it! <br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAELphJCF=3+iwqMNh9A5KNoh4TDzh_UwYUmwe=NCZ5iaUyEY2g@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le sam. 18 avr. 2020 à 22:23,
Hidde Wieringa <<a href="mailto:hidde@hiddewieringa.nl"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">hidde@hiddewieringa.nl</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hello,</p>
<p>This is the first time posting to this mailing list. In
case this is the wrong place to post my question, feel
free to point me to the correct mailing list/forum.</p>
<p>I opened an issue in the OSM carto Github repository (<a
href="https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/4115"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/4115</a>)
with the question if places tagged with place=* but
without a name could be rendered. The follow-up pull
request <a
href="https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/4120"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/4120</a>
proposes a rendering for unnamed places.<br>
</p>
<p>A discussion erupted, about the conceptual consequences
of rendering a place without a name. This goes against the
wiki (<a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place</a>)
where the tag name=* is marked as required. The first line
in the wiki is <i>"Used to indicate that a particular
location is known by a particular name, to indicate what
sort of "place" it is. [...]"</i>. However indicating
what sort of place it is, does not require a name.
Indicating that a place of some sort exists at a certain
location is also valuable data (a quick count of Nigeria
gives ~9800 nodes of places without a name versus ~69000
nodes of places with a name).<br>
</p>
<p>I wish to question the assumption that every place always
has or requires a name. The comment of 'sommerluk' on the
Github issue (<a
href="https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/4115#issuecomment-612847759"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/4115#issuecomment-612847759</a>)
indicates that there may indeed be small populated places
without a name, although larger populated places always
have a name in practice. <br>
</p>
<p>Also, regions of the world where on-the-ground mapping is
not popular will mostly be mapped by remote mappers.
Because of that, mapped places will usually not get a name
(yet), because mappers are not locally familiar with the
place. The data is still useful for humanitarian aid (for
example see <a
href="https://tasks.hotosm.org/contribute?difficulty=ALL&text=nigeria"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://tasks.hotosm.org/contribute?difficulty=ALL&text=nigeria</a>
for the many projects in the HOT tasking manager for
improving data in Nigeria, in particular missing
residential areas). Rendering these places in a visual way
makes using the data easier. Later, the unnamed places
could still be given a name by a mapper with that
knowledge.<br>
</p>
<p>The tough question is when some place is considered a
'place' and may be mapped when the name is unknown. <br>
</p>
<p>I am curious about further reactions on this topic.<br>
</p>
<p>Kind regards,<br>
<i>Hidde Wieringa</i><br>
</p>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Tagging mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">Florimond Berthoux</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</body>
</html>