<html><head></head><body><div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;"><div>An addition to my ideas:</div>
<div>I think bell_tower=carillon does not really fit, because it says nothing about what kind of bell_tower it is, like the other values of bell_tower do.</div>
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<div>Wikipedia says: "<span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">A </span><b style="color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 700; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">carillon </b><span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">is a </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_instrument" style="background-attachment: scroll; background-clip: border-box; background-color: transparent; background-image: none; background-origin: padding-box; background-position-x: 0%; background-position-y: 0%; background-repeat: repeat; background-size: auto; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" title="Musical instrument">musical instrument</a><span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"> that is typically housed in the </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_tower" style="background-attachment: scroll; background-clip: border-box; background-color: transparent; background-image: none; background-origin: padding-box; background-position-x: 0%; background-position-y: 0%; background-repeat: repeat; background-size: auto; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" title="Bell tower">bell tower</a><span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"> (belfry) of a </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_(building)" style="background-attachment: scroll; background-clip: border-box; background-color: transparent; background-image: none; background-origin: padding-box; background-position-x: 0%; background-position-y: 0%; background-repeat: repeat; background-size: auto; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" title="Church (building)">church</a>" okay yes, typically. But that changes nothing about that it's not a type of a bell_tower, but a "content" of it. So that's why I would propose a new tag man_made=bells for it, but I see that that might be like mapping every antenna of a tower:type=communication. Not very useful. So I would go on attraction=carillon then, which could be used for the carillons when they are operated as an attraction.</div>
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<div>--Lukas
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<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 06. Mai 2020 um 21:24 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> Lukas-458@web.de<br/>
<b>An:</b> tagging@openstreetmap.org<br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Tagging] Is there any tagging scheme for carillons already?</div>
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<div>Okay. So I may conclude:</div>
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<div>- We have those carillons inside bell towers, often we do not see them at all. Not sure whether to tag those, at least the attraction=* key would not fit for all of them.</div>
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<div>- We have some carillons outside of bell_towers, and I think these are the ones which are operated as an attraction, at least in most cases.</div>
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<div>What would you say to propose something like "man_made=bells" (not man_made=bell, because several bells can then mapped as one node, for many carillons it would not be really able to map each bell of it) and "bell_count" for tagging "all kinds" of bells? These tags could be used for carillons inside and outside of bell_towers (and maybe for "other bells", too), so it says nothing about being an attraction. If people want to map only the tower, they can do. But I believe there are bells outside of towers, too.</div>
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<div>If it's purposed for people looking at it and hearing it at scheduled times and so on, we would need something like attraction=carillon or the tourism=attraction tag would have to be added to the man_made=bells, would be my suggestion then.</div>
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<div>Someone likes to comment on that?</div>
<div>-- Lukas</div>
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<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 06. Mai 2020 um 20:58 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Martin Koppenhoefer" <dieterdreist@gmail.com><br/>
<b>An:</b> "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" <tagging@openstreetmap.org><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Tagging] Is there any tagging scheme for carillons already?</div>
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<br/>
sent from a phone<br/>
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> On 6. May 2020, at 19:54, Paul Allen <pla16021@gmail.com> wrote:<br/>
><br/>
> I'm not sure we need to tag the carillon. The ones in churches I've<br/>
> encountered or read about aren't operated as attractions. The bells aren't<br/>
> visible, the mechanisms aren't visible, the operator isn't visible and they're<br/>
> not operated frequently.<br/>
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I understand you are mostly interested in visual aspects, but OSM doesn’t have to limit itself to this, IMHO carillons are mostly about music so whether you can see them is not so important.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
> I don't think we need to tag the fact that a carillon is in a church bell tower,<br/>
> or how many bells it has. We distinguish between a bell tower and a clock<br/>
> tower because they are visibly very different and constitute landmarks .<br/>
> Other than that, we don't need to know what is inside.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
I disagree.<br/>
<br/>
Cheers Martin<br/>
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