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<div><br></div><div>Discussion moved from talk mailing list as it is clearly about tagging details.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Relevant part is quoted so hopefully it is not too confusing.<br></div><div><br></div><div>May 25, 2020, 02:45 by arne@thaw.de:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>On 25 May 2020, at 01:45, Mateusz Konieczny via talk <talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:<br></div><blockquote><div>May 25, 2020, 00:36 by arne@thaw.de:<br></div><blockquote><div><br></div><div>I would argue that non-gated driveways are often closer to access=destination than they are to access=private.<br></div><div><br></div><div>According to the wiki, private requires individual permission, which I can't give to the mailman / delivery person, but I still want them to make their deliveries on my doorstep.<br></div></blockquote><div>I would describe delivery part as<br></div><div><br></div><div>"I have given individual permission to delivery person by requesting delivery"<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Not all deliveries are actively requested, and the delivery person can't know if you requested it or not. <br></div></blockquote><div>Good point. Maybe it can be argued that there is implicit permission for delivery services?<br></div><div>My uncle has farm, with clearly private yard (it is unsigned).<br></div><div><br></div><div>Postman or package delivery would be welcomed there and - even if package <br></div><div>would not be requested, but random person driving to<br></div><div>front of his house would not be and AFAIK would violate law.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>Therefore, access=private as a _default_ for driveways seems wrong to me.<br></div></blockquote><div>Here I completely agree. That is why we tag access=private if needed on driveway,<br></div><div>and access=yes is basically never tagged.<br></div><div><br></div><div>This indicates that we treat "public access" as default value for all highway levels,<br></div><div>including driveways.<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><blockquote><div>Random person driving to my house and trying to sell me random items would<br></div><div>not be covered by such permission and unwanted and violating access rules,<br></div><div>right?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Such peddler would be allowed by access=destination (any non-transit<br></div><div>traffic allowed).<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Exactly. In the jurisdictions I'm familiar with, such traffic is in fact generally allowed on driveways.<br></div><div><br></div><div>However, some driveways are behind a locked gate or clearly signed as "private / no trespassing" (which is legally equivalent in some jurisdictions). Such cases should qualify for an _explicit_ access=private tag. Delivery to your doorstep might then be impossible, unless there's like a bell at the gate that can be used by the delivery person to obtain individual permission.<br></div></blockquote><div>Sounds OK.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>So, access=private for driveways is not necessarily wrong, it's but probably somewhat rare.<br></div></blockquote><div>I would be careful with "somewhat rare" - it strongly depends on location,<br></div><div>in Poland overwhelming majority (nearly 100% outside rural areas) of driveways<br></div><div>will have gates.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>Your new language about this on the access=* page seems fine to me:<br></div><div>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:access&oldid=1994851#Road_with_restricted_access<br></div></blockquote><div>:)<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>FWIW, I'm less happy with the current state of the access=private page. But I'm not sure if consensus exists to clarify it.<br></div></blockquote><div>What is wrong and how you want to change it?<br></div><div><br></div> </body>
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