<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>May 26, 2020, 17:20 by f@zz.de:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 11:10:17AM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:<br></div><blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>sent from a phone<br></div><div><br></div><div>> On 25. May 2020, at 20:37, Florian Lohoff <f@zz.de> wrote:<br></div><div>> <br></div><div>> i'd expect OSM<br></div><div>> offering me a conflict free (in legal and physical terms) route based<br></div><div>> on the tags it finds.<br></div><div>> <br></div><div>> This is especially true for transit e.g. traversing something. This is<br></div><div>> pretty inline with my in-car-nav (Mercedes E Class). It will not send<br></div><div>> you where you are not allowed to go.<br></div><div><br></div><div>You must acknowledge that (supposedly) most countries are not applying<br></div><div>traffic rules the way Germans do, particularly when it is about<br></div><div>bicycles and not about motor vehicles. Car navigation is in no way<br></div><div>comparable to bicycle navigation, and not only because as a cyclists<br></div><div>you can become a pedestrian any time you want by dismounting and<br></div><div>pushing, but also because bicycles may not be considered “real”<br></div><div>traffic by the police.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>But still - Are we going to send people where we are in doubt they are<br></div><div>legal to go? I guess anyone will answer no<br></div></blockquote><div>Not always. In some countries access law, traffic and enforcement matches.<br></div><div><br></div><div>In some you may have situation closer to <br></div><div><br></div><div>(1) law says "bicycles are illegal to drive"<br></div><div>(2) law is ignored by everyone<br></div><div><br></div><div>In such cases bicycle router showing "it is illegal to drive bicycle here anywhere"<br></div><div>would be useless, and people would want one matching reality. <br></div><div><br></div><div>The question is whatever such de facto status<br></div><div>- can be recorded in OSM<br></div><div>- should it be recorder (ab)using standard access tags<br></div><div>- if recording it is OK but access/bicycle/etc should be kept for legal<br></div><div> status then we need new tags (bicycle:de_facto, bicycle:de_iure ?)<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>My intention is to remove as much interpretation, fiction, feelings<br></div><div>from the access tag creation as possible.<br></div></blockquote><div>A good idea.<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>For me there does not need to be a restriction if there is no clear <br></div><div>intention visible - And that should be the case for most countries.<br></div></blockquote><div>? sometimes intention is unclear ("I hate anyone driving here"<br></div><div>is likely untrue), but signs are clear<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>[bicycle|foot|car|hgv|...]=no/private/permissive/...<br></div><div><br></div><div>is always a matter of signage as you are restricting from the<br></div><div>defaults<br></div></blockquote><div>No only signs - there are also gates or physically blocked access<br></div><div>in some other way. Or permanently placed police/guards. <br></div><div><br></div> </body>
</html>