<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">This thread has been quite amazing to me. My impression is that it starts with some routers (a.k.a data consumers, a.k.a. “renderers”) treating a “no” as a “maybe” and now people are looking for a new term to indicate that “we really, really, mean NO!”. This is worse than tagging for the render, it is obsoleting a straight forward and explicit tag value for a broken renderer.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Discussion devolves into “if I disassemble by bicycle and put into wheeled luggage is it okay now?”.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Why not treat “no” as no? If I can push the bicycle through then we already have “dismount”.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Is there some other way of getting a bicycle through? If so, then come up with a new value for that (“disassembled”?).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In the meantime, file bug reports against any router that routes a bicycle over a “no”.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">At least where I am, “no really means no” and if you are caught with a bicycle at all then you are subject to a fine. Thousands of kilometers of paths are so marked and it really wouldn’t be nice to redefine an existing value.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers!</div><div class="">Tod</div><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 22, 2020, at 7:34 AM, Allroads <<a href="mailto:allroadsworld@gmail.com" class="">allroadsworld@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><a title="https://images.mapillary.com/yQWkL-XX5eRN5A2j0JkKIA/thumb-2048.jpg" href="https://images.mapillary.com/yQWkL-XX5eRN5A2j0JkKIA/thumb-2048.jpg" class="">https://images.mapillary.com/yQWkL-XX5eRN5A2j0JkKIA/thumb-2048.jpg</a></div>
<div class="">Geen toegang:</div>
<div class="">- met (brom)fietsen.</div>
<div class="">No access: </div>
<div class="">- with bicycles.</div>
<div class="">This is written, grammatically and orthographly, in a way, that the
"vehicle" is meant. </div>
<div class="">explicit the bicycle no access.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">This is privat land, Staatsbosbeheer, owned or in control, all over the
Netherlands, you see these type of signs, arranged in the same way, the
layout.</div>
<div class="">Mostly all of these roads/tracks path are permissive</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><a style="href: "https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Waterloopbos._Natuurgebied_van_Natuurmonumenten._Informatiebord.jpg"" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Waterloopbos._Natuurgebied_van_Natuurmonumenten._Informatiebord.jpg</font></a></div>
<div class="">- Fietsers op verharde fietspaden en wegen</div>
<div class="">-Bicyclist on paved cycleway and roads.</div>
<div class="">Here is written what is allowed.</div>
<div class="">But more important:</div>
<div class="">Overigens verboden toegang Artikel 461 W.v.S.</div>
<div class="">Others prohibited access, article 461 Code criminal law.</div>
<div class="">The word “Overigens” means: all the other which is not
mentioned above on the sign</div>
<div class="">Not pushing a bicycle on a unpaved cyclway, path, tracks. So others then
“wegen” roads.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">A active Openmapstreet member got a ticket for pushing his bike on a
not allowed “wegen” by a certified ranger (BOA) Community service officer.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">This sign with “Overigens” of the private organisation
Natuurmonumenten, you find them all over the Netherlands, with the same
layout.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><br class=""> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: ; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: ; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial" dir="ltr" class="">‘'</div>
<div class="gmail_quote" style="FONT-FAMILY: ; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: ; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<div class="">
<div class=""><font face="Verdana" class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 9.8pt" class="">bicycle=explicit_no
sounds to me like "there is an explicit sign forbidding
this",</font></font><br class=""></div></div></blockquote>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><font face="Verdana" class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 9.8pt" class="">Indeed.</font></font></div>
<div class=""> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<div class="">
<div class=""></div>
<div class=""><font face="Verdana" class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 9.8pt" class="">not "bicycle vehicle
itself is prohibited, not just
cycling".</font></font><br class=""></div></div></blockquote>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><font face="Verdana" class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 9.8pt" class="">That sounds like
bicycle=prohibited. :)</font></font></div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">‘'</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Text on sign: “Overigens” and “- met fietsen” <font face="Verdana" class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 9.8pt" class="">"bicycle vehicle itself is
prohibited”</font></font></div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div style="WORD-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0pt" class="">I need a value
.*=explicit_no for “the vehicle” or some other value that means the same. “the
bicycle is not allowed”</div>
<div style="WORD-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div style="WORD-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0pt" class="">This is for all kind of
transportation and vehicles. Pushing carry/not allowed.</div>
<div style="WORD-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div class=""> </div></div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">It
seems highly strange that you wouldn't even be allowed to carry/push your bike,
are you sure that was what it meant? </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">Do you have a picture of the sign?</div></div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FLOAT: none; COLOR: ; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; DISPLAY: inline !important; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial" class=""><font face="Verdana" class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 9.8pt" class="">_______________________________________________</font></font></span><br class="">Tagging
mailing
list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" class="">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br class="">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging<br class=""></div></div></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">Tagging mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" class="">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br class="">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>