<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">It certainly would not be my pick of terms, but it seems manhole=drain has an appropriate definition in the wiki [1] and considerable use [2] for a place that water disappears into a man made structure. Most of them around here are not circular and many appear to be too small for a person to get into when the grate is removed. But OSM has odd tagging for other things so why not this too? <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I will start tagging that where the surface drainage ditches disappear into the ground. I wonder if QA tools like Osmose will stop nagging me about those waterways.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We are still left with the situation where an ephemeral waterway fans out over the desert and disappears. We need some sort of tagging to indicate this is not a mistake and I’ve not seen a tag or value come up in this discussion that has any existing use or consensus in the list.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">These are definitely not sink holes and shouldn’t be tagged as such.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Digression: The wiki page for natural=sinkhole [3] says that it is a tagging error to use natural=sink_hole. When I look at taginfo I see nearly 2000 occurances of natural=sink_hole and none for natural=sinkhole [4]. I guess the write of the wiki page disagreed with the spelling of the most used spelling of the tag value.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">Anyway, back to waterways dissipating in the desert. Where the flowing water disappears varies considerably from storm to storm so maybe it shouldn’t even be a tag on the last node of the way. Maybe the last section of the way could have a tag instead?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="">Would a tag on the way be better or worse than a tag on the last node on the way?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Maybe a discussion on this will turn up a possible way to map the situation.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thank you for the responses so far!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">—Tod<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">[1] <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:manhole%3Ddrain" class="">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:manhole%3Ddrain</a></div><div class="">[2] <a href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=manhole%3Ddrain" class="">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=manhole%3Ddrain</a></div><div class="">[3] <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dsinkhole" class="">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dsinkhole</a></div><div class="">[3] <a href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=natural%3Dsink" class="">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=natural%3Dsink</a></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 20, 2020, at 3:19 PM, Volker Schmidt <<a href="mailto:voschix@gmail.com" class="">voschix@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Manhole=drain has more than 2000 uses, most of them seem to be water drainage grids with no access for humans.</div><div class="">But if you want to retag them with something different you would need to do this manually. <br class=""></div><div class="">I would not touch it, even if it is an unfortunate tagging.<br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 21:33, Alan Mackie <<a href="mailto:aamackie@gmail.com" class="">aamackie@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 11:28, Paul Allen <<a href="mailto:pla16021@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">pla16021@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 10:59, Volker Schmidt <<a href="mailto:voschix@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">voschix@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">manhole=drain is widely used in OSM for water drainage grids, that are not suitable for people to entr - se the photo on the <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:manhole%3Ddrain" target="_blank" class="">wikipage</a><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">People have used manhole=drain for that purpose and the wikipage</div><div class="">for manhole=drain documents that use. However, that photo appears</div><div class="">to be of a UK storm drain which is not a manhole by my definition</div><div class="">(too small for entry by a person) or by the wiki's definition for</div><div class="">Key:manhole which states "Hole with a cover that allows access to</div><div class=""> an underground service location, just large enough for a human to climb</div><div class=""> through."</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In my opinion we should deprecate manhole=drain except where</div><div class="">it really is large enough for access by a person. We need a</div><div class="">better tag. Well, two tags. One for storm drains and one</div><div class="">for sinks that are too small to merit natural=sinkhole with</div><div class="">any of the current sinkhole=* types. Oh, and a tag for</div><div class="">spreads, too.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-- <br class=""></div><div class="">Paul</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think we also need one for "entrances" to pipes/tunnels of unknown extent where the entrance is by horizontal movement of the water rather than by falling into a hole. The presence/absence of gratings or mesh may be useful for these too. <br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div>
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