<div dir="auto">It's not the routers' fault. They correctly reflect the mappers' intentions. In almost all cases when we map bicycle=no it means, according to the law, you can pass if you walk your bicycle, because you are considered a pedestrian. We simply missed to realise that we overlooked the rare cases where you are not allowed to walk your bicycle.<div dir="auto">From time to time, we discuss this issue, but have so far not come up with a solution.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 22 Jul 2020, 16:54 Tod Fitch, <<a href="mailto:tod@fitchfamily.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tod@fitchfamily.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">This thread has been quite amazing to me. My impression is that it starts with some routers (a.k.a data consumers, a.k.a. “renderers”) treating a “no” as a “maybe” and now people are looking for a new term to indicate that “we really, really, mean NO!”. This is worse than tagging for the render, it is obsoleting a straight forward and explicit tag value for a broken renderer.<div><br></div><div>Discussion devolves into “if I disassemble by bicycle and put into wheeled luggage is it okay now?”.</div><div><br></div><div>Why not treat “no” as no? If I can push the bicycle through then we already have “dismount”.</div><div><br></div><div>Is there some other way of getting a bicycle through? If so, then come up with a new value for that (“disassembled”?).</div><div><br></div><div>In the meantime, file bug reports against any router that routes a bicycle over a “no”.</div><div><br></div><div>At least where I am, “no really means no” and if you are caught with a bicycle at all then you are subject to a fine. Thousands of kilometers of paths are so marked and it really wouldn’t be nice to redefine an existing value.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers!</div><div>Tod</div><div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Jul 22, 2020, at 7:34 AM, Allroads <<a href="mailto:allroadsworld@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">allroadsworld@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri">
<div> </div>
<div><a title="https://images.mapillary.com/yQWkL-XX5eRN5A2j0JkKIA/thumb-2048.jpg" href="https://images.mapillary.com/yQWkL-XX5eRN5A2j0JkKIA/thumb-2048.jpg" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://images.mapillary.com/yQWkL-XX5eRN5A2j0JkKIA/thumb-2048.jpg</a></div>
<div>Geen toegang:</div>
<div>- met (brom)fietsen.</div>
<div>No access: </div>
<div>- with bicycles.</div>
<div>This is written, grammatically and orthographly, in a way, that the
"vehicle" is meant. </div>
<div>explicit the bicycle no access.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>This is privat land, Staatsbosbeheer, owned or in control, all over the
Netherlands, you see these type of signs, arranged in the same way, the
layout.</div>
<div>Mostly all of these roads/tracks path are permissive</div>
<div> </div>
<div><a rel="noreferrer noreferrer"><font face="Times New Roman">https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Waterloopbos._Natuurgebied_van_Natuurmonumenten._Informatiebord.jpg</font></a></div>
<div>- Fietsers op verharde fietspaden en wegen</div>
<div>-Bicyclist on paved cycleway and roads.</div>
<div>Here is written what is allowed.</div>
<div>But more important:</div>
<div>Overigens verboden toegang Artikel 461 W.v.S.</div>
<div>Others prohibited access, article 461 Code criminal law.</div>
<div>The word “Overigens” means: all the other which is not
mentioned above on the sign</div>
<div>Not pushing a bicycle on a unpaved cyclway, path, tracks. So others then
“wegen” roads.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>A active Openmapstreet member got a ticket for pushing his bike on a
not allowed “wegen” by a certified ranger (BOA) Community service officer.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>This sign with “Overigens” of the private organisation
Natuurmonumenten, you find them all over the Netherlands, with the same
layout.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br> </div>
<div dir="ltr">‘'</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<div>
<div><font face="Verdana"><font style="FONT-SIZE:9.8pt">bicycle=explicit_no
sounds to me like "there is an explicit sign forbidding
this",</font></font><br></div></div></blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana"><font style="FONT-SIZE:9.8pt">Indeed.</font></font></div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<div>
<div></div>
<div><font face="Verdana"><font style="FONT-SIZE:9.8pt">not "bicycle vehicle
itself is prohibited, not just
cycling".</font></font><br></div></div></blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Verdana"><font style="FONT-SIZE:9.8pt">That sounds like
bicycle=prohibited. :)</font></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>‘'</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Text on sign: “Overigens” and “- met fietsen” <font face="Verdana"><font style="FONT-SIZE:9.8pt">"bicycle vehicle itself is
prohibited”</font></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div style="WORD-SPACING:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0pt">I need a value
.*=explicit_no for “the vehicle” or some other value that means the same. “the
bicycle is not allowed”</div>
<div style="WORD-SPACING:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0pt"> </div>
<div style="WORD-SPACING:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0pt">This is for all kind of
transportation and vehicles. Pushing carry/not allowed.</div>
<div style="WORD-SPACING:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0pt"> </div>
<div> </div></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div>
<div style="font-size:small;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;display:inline">It
seems highly strange that you wouldn't even be allowed to carry/push your bike,
are you sure that was what it meant? </div></div>
<div>
<div>Do you have a picture of the sign?</div></div>
<div> </div>
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