<html><body><div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000"><hr id="zwchr" data-marker="__DIVIDER__"><div data-marker="__HEADERS__"><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #1010FF;margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px;color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"><b>De: </b>"Paul Norman via Tagging" <tagging@openstreetmap.org><br><b>Para: </b>tagging@openstreetmap.org<br><b>CC: </b>"Paul Norman" <penorman@mac.com><br><b>Enviados: </b>Sábado, 1 de Agosto 2020 3:18:34<br><b>Asunto: </b>Re: [Tagging] Rio de la Plata edit war<br></blockquote></div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__"><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #1010FF;margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px;color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"><div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-07-31 8:21 a.m., Andy Townsend
wrote:<br></div><blockquote cite="mid:700acec2-1ce6-5c97-c3dc-48e609bb68c4@gmail.com"><div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 26/05/2020 00:20, Alan Mackie
wrote:<br></div><blockquote cite="mid:CAEPvJGp3D0oVtr4=Lm_VxmFiZBXsKgBM13beCM3hHicQmU1DNg@mail.gmail.com"><div dir="ltr"><div>Has this edit war stabilised? <br></div><div><br></div><div>Apparently it has been blocking coastline updates across
the whole world for <i>months </i>now.</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://osmdata.openstreetmap.de/data/land-polygons.html" target="_blank">https://osmdata.openstreetmap.de/data/land-polygons.html</a><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div><a href="https://github.com/fossgis/osmdata/issues/7" target="_blank">https://github.com/fossgis/osmdata/issues/7</a><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div></div></blockquote><p>(picking this thread up again because there still hasn't
exactly been a meeting of minds here)</p><p>land polygons have been generated (see <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://osmdata.openstreetmap.de/data/land-polygons.html" target="_blank">https://osmdata.openstreetmap.de/data/land-polygons.html</a>
) and <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/fossgis/osmdata/issues/7" target="_blank">https://github.com/fossgis/osmdata/issues/7</a>
has been resolved by manually "releasing" the coastline. The
current situation in OSM is <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/WD8" target="_blank">https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/WD8</a>
- at the time of writing this the coastline crosses the river
north of Buenos Aires. <br></p><p>However, edits are continuing (see <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/88787419" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/88787419</a>
). I'm not convinced that moving to one of two extremes, even a
small amount at a time, is a good idea until there's actually
been discussion between the proponents of the various positions.</p><p>For what it's worth, neither extreme position looks the best
answer to me - looking at the salinity change between river to
ocean at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0307904X07000716" target="_blank">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0307904X07000716</a>
(see <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0307904X07000716" target="_blank">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0307904X07000716</a>
for the key picture) and looking at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Rio_de_la_Plata_BA_2.JPG" target="_blank">https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Rio_de_la_Plata_BA_2.JPG</a>
suggests a location some way between the two. Despite the NASA
photo it looks like there isn't a "step change" in salinity -
and of course values will fluctuate based on winds and tides etc</p></blockquote><p><br></p><p>I live near the coast and have done coastline processing,
including a great deal worldwide during the redaction.</p><p>Salinity and territorial control have seldom been considerations
in where the break between water mapped as waterway=riverbank and
natural=coastline that I have seen. The break is chosen as a
convenient place for mappers and a common view of where the coast
of the ocean is, not based on scientific salinity criteria. For
territorial control, look at all the inlets along the BC or
Norwegian coasts.<br></p></blockquote><br></div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__">Hi.<br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__">for sure, the coast of the ocean starts in Punta del Este, Uruguay and in Punta Rasa (San Clemente). My personal experience is in Punta del Este, and it is incredible how the beaches changes from this point to the east and to the west. There are two very different kind of coast, to the east one with waves, wind, salinity, notable changes in the seabed of the beaches, currents, cold salty water, etc. The other one to the west is calm, almost no winds, no currents, very small waves of less than 40-50 cm, very low salinity, fresh water not so cold.<br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__">The scientific studies you can read matches what can be seen here in the ground, in the beaches, and in the videos i linked in my previous mail. </div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__">No, its hard to see it from aerial imagery, but it seems that i'm discusing with armchair mappers, and they dont put any argument of why the coastline in between of Punta del Este-Punta Rasa is a bad idea. For the obviously changing limit of the river/ocean, this line is "like an average", like the mean high water springs is for the ocean shore. </div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__">on the other hand, what about the local knowledge? the on-the-ground survey? those does'nt have value in this discussion?<br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__">Regards,<br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__">M.<br data-mce-bogus="1"></div></div>
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