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<p>Indeed. It is interesting to see that caravan_site is rendered
conditionally in OpenCampingMap (only when further tags like tents
tents, caravans, private, groups_only, etc. are given). Camp_sites
are always rendered as far as I can find [1] [2].<br>
</p>
<p>Dalaas caravan_site is not rendered [3] [4], while the
caravan_site in Murg [5] [6] has tents=yes and is rendered.</p>
<p>Trusting the knowledge behind OpenCampingMap, it would seem that
unless a caravan_site is tagged specifically with tents=yes, it is
not possible to camp with a tent on a caravan_site. <br>
</p>
<p>This observation is in line with my earlier proposal to make
caravan_site *not* allow tents/camping by default. If tents are
allowed ("They may also have some space for tents." on the wiki),
then the caravan_site should be tagged explicitly with tents=yes.
<br>
Are there any objections against this proposed change to the
caravan_site wiki?<br>
</p>
<p>Kind regards,<i><br>
Hidde <br>
</i></p>
<p>[1] <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/283021236">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/283021236</a><br>
[2] <a
href="https://opencampingmap.org/#17/47.18396/9.25374/1/1/bef">https://opencampingmap.org/#17/47.18396/9.25374/1/1/bef</a><br>
[3] <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/129861804#map=17/47.12228/9.99663">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/129861804#map=17/47.12228/9.99663s</a><br>
[4] <a
href="https://opencampingmap.org/#16/47.1235/9.9975/1/1/bef">https://opencampingmap.org/#16/47.1235/9.9975/1/1/bef</a><br>
[5] <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/193412043">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/193412043</a><br>
[6] <a
href="https://opencampingmap.org/#16/47.1139/9.2110/1/1/bef">https://opencampingmap.org/#16/47.1139/9.2110/1/1/bef</a></p>
<p><i><br>
</i></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16-08-2020 08:16, Warin wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:58c6e815-9f80-d9d5-b453-ba0b3e2625f6@gmail.com">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/8/20 4:49 am, Hidde Wieringa
wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:f4b6cbdb-3c37-d721-2928-78fe1901d81f@hiddewieringa.nl">
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<p>Good day,</p>
<p>I am having trouble with the tourism tags caravan_site and
camp_site, specifically for the use case of finding a place to
camp with a tent (so not a caravan or a camper van).<br>
</p>
<p>My goal is to differentiate the two tags. Both tags allow
tents, and both allow camper vans and caravans. Both tags may
or may not provide facilities such as toilets, water,
electricity, et cetera. In practice, the only thing that
differentiates a pitch for a tent versus a pitch for a caravan
or camper van, is the ground underneath (tents require some
sort of soft material like grass). This differentiating
property is not mentioned at all in the Wiki.<br>
</p>
<p>- The tag tents=yes/no (only listed in the camp_site Wiki)
would be a good way to find a place to camp with a tent, but
almost none of the caravan_site have this tag. All camp_sites
in OSM I have camped on, allowed tents.<br>
- Some of the caravan_site have been tagged with
amenity=parking or even surface=asphalt and this would mean
that camping with a tent is definitely not possible.<br>
- I noticed that both of the tags have status 'de facto', and
no proposals have been made for the definition of said tags. I
found an abandoned proposal [1] that has a good discussion
about camping [2].<br>
- Some camp_sites have a 'nested' polygon with a caravan_site.
This seems logical, and the caravan_site can be ignored, and
the camp_site can be used for camping with a tent.<br>
</p>
<p>Statistics from TagInfo: camp_site has ~100,000 uses, and
caravan_site has ~30,000 uses.</p>
<p>I ran a quick Overpass query for a small number of caravan
sites (~15) [3]. Some of them note on their website that
camping with a tent is possible, and the surface of the
pitches seems to be grass. I am wondering if these should be
re-tagged as camp_site, or if I am missing something.<br>
</p>
<p>My opinion would be that a camp_site should allow staying
overnight with many types of vehicles/tents, indicated by the
tags listed clearly on the wiki of camp_site. A caravan_site
would allow staying overnight with vehicles only, and not
allow camping with a tent. Concretely the sentence "They may
also have some space for tents." on [4] is the problem.
Replacing the sentence on the wiki with "Camping with a tent
is not possible." would remove any ambiguity differentiating
these tags.<br>
</p>
<p>Any comments are welcome. I am willing to update the wiki or
draft a proposal for differentiating these two tags, if
necessary.<br>
</p>
<p>Kind regards,<br>
<i>Hidde Wieringa</i></p>
<p>[1] <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Extend_camp_site"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Extend_camp_site</a><br>
[2] <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Extend_camp_site#caravan_site_separated.3F"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Extend_camp_site#caravan_site_separated.3F</a>
<br>
[3] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://tyrasd.github.io/overpass-turbo/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnHRvxKjEhW09Y8SwYXZhbl9zacSVIMWVxJfElW50cz1ub8WIwp0KKi8KW8WMdDpqc29uXVt0aW1lxaw6MjVdOwovL8SPxJTEnXIgcmVzdWzFoAooCiAgxoAgcXXEksSaxKNydCBmb3I6IMWIxYrFjMS3c8WPxZHEk8WUxZbFmMWaxZzEm8SNxaDFosWkwoDFpsaQxaNkZVsixYvFjcalIj0ixqfFk8WVxZfFmWUixbMhxZ7FoF0oe3tixKp4fX0pxb7GkHdheca5xrvGpG3GvseAxZLGqceExJXHh1vHicavc8eMx47HkG_HkseUx5bGhmVsxJRpxbHHm8ajxY7Hn8eBx6LGq8eGx4jHisepx43Hj8eRx5PHlQrIhsaScMS3xZ_HscaJxotzCsWsxJhvZHnFvj7FvsiSc2vHssaTdDs&c=BNxUhr7BxL&">https://tyrasd.github.io/overpass-turbo</a><br>
[4] <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dcaravan_site"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dcaravan_site</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>The web site <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://opencampingmap.org/#10/48.6100/8.2400/0/1/bef"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://opencampingmap.org/#10/48.6100/8.2400/0/1/bef</a>
is an attempt to encourage mapping of camp and caravan site
attributes... <br>
</p>
<br>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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