<div dir="ltr">They mean the same thing, we tag different aspects of a bridge with different tags.<div><br></div><div>All bridges are man_made and all bridges are bridges.</div><div><br></div><div>Therefore if the tag for man_made=bridge was changed to bridge=yes, and bridge=yes was used for both ways and areas then this would simplify the tagging of bridges.</div><div><br></div><div>One would then use bridge=construction instead of construction=bridge to match the standards used in buildings (building=construction).</div><div><br></div><div>If you take the buildings for example:</div><div>buildings=yes (area) is equivalent to man_made=building (not used) as all buildings are man_made, yet we don't tag it as man_made rather just building=yes for areas.</div><div><br></div><div><b>If building=yes applies to areas, why doesn't bridge=yes apply to areas?</b></div><div><br></div><div>The same stands for all other man_made tags. </div><div><br></div><div>Most common man_made tags:</div><div>man_made=pier could become pier=yes</div><div>man_made=storage_tank could become storage_tank=yes or storage_tank=(content)</div><div><br></div><div><b>Perhaps I'll drop the gender argument and go with man_made is actually not required and perhaps we should tackle these one-by-one therefore reducing the immediate changes required.</b></div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Rob.</div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 17:01, Jo <<a href="mailto:winfixit@gmail.com">winfixit@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">They do NOT mean the same thing. How they differ has already been mentioned 2 or 3 times in this thread.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 06:59 Robert Delmenico <<a href="mailto:robert@rtbk.com.au" target="_blank">robert@rtbk.com.au</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Essentially though, they mean the same thing:<div dir="auto">man_made=bridge is for areas</div><div dir="auto">bridge=yes is for ways</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Both refer to to say there is a bridge and each assumes each others meaning - I wouldn't think we would use natural=bridge.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Perhaps there could be a proposal to change man_made=bridge to bridge=yes</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 20 Oct 2020, 3:41 pm Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging, <<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>20 paź 2020, 00:52 od <a href="mailto:robert@rtbk.com.au" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">robert@rtbk.com.au</a>:<br></div><blockquote style="border-left:1px solid rgb(147,163,184);padding-left:10px;margin-left:5px"><div dir="auto"><div>Perhaps the use of man_made could be dropped all together as it is somewhat superfluous.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Ie. man_made=bridge is the same as bridge=yes<br></div></div></blockquote><div>Are you aware that we have bridge=yes<br></div><div>and man_made=bridge used with a <br></div><div>different meaning?</div><blockquote style="border-left:1px solid rgb(147,163,184);padding-left:10px;margin-left:5px"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Perhaps all of the existing man_made=[value] tags should be changed to [value]=yes<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Rob<br></div></div><div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr">On Tue, 20 Oct 2020, 9:46 am Robert Delmenico, <<a href="mailto:robert@rtbk.com.au" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">robert@rtbk.com.au</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>Please read this article:<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><a rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" href="https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/pep/index-fra.html?lang=fra&page=usage_7_gender_neutral_writing_questions_usage" target="_blank">https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/pep/index-fra.html?lang=fra&page=usage_7_gender_neutral_writing_questions_usage</a><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">'Not really, and "man_made" does not mean that it was made by males.'</span></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">Yes it does. Why would society also use women-made?</span></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">'It seems to me that a lot of males like to speak for women on these issues.</span></span><br></div><div><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">Why? Can't they speak for themselves?'</span></span><br></div></div><div dir="auto"><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">Hence why I said who am I to decide! </span></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><div><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">'Marriam-webster:</span></span><br></div><div><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">==</span></span><br></div><div><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">Definition of man-made</span></span><br></div><div><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">: manufactured, created, or constructed by human beings'</span></span><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span></span><br></div></div><div dir="auto"><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"><a rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" href="https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/03/not-everything-is-man-made-13-amazing-inventions-you-can-thank-women-for/" target="_blank">https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/03/not-everything-is-man-made-13-amazing-inventions-you-can-thank-women-for/</a></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif">Should we use the term man-made if it is made entirely by women?</span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif">Also, check out the translations in the Collins dictionary - what do you notice? </span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"><a rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" href="https://www.collinsdictionary.com/amp/english/man-made" target="_blank">https://www.collinsdictionary.com/amp/english/man-made</a></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">'As I mentioned in another email, we do use terms such as midwife.'</span></span><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Midwife actually translates as 'with woman'. The wife part relates to the person giving birth.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, 20 Oct 2020, 8:44 am Niels Elgaard Larsen, <<a rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" href="mailto:elgaard@agol.dk" target="_blank">elgaard@agol.dk</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Robert Delmenico:<br></div><div> > <br></div><div> > I originally put the call out really to gauge if there was much interest in changing <br></div><div> > the term man_made because of its use of 'man', and was interested in hearing the <br></div><div> > thoughts from other mappers as really this proposal isn't just mine. If there was no <br></div><div> > interest I would just abandon it and move on - that's how the system works yeah?<br></div><div> > <br></div><div> > Here's my thoughts based on the feedback received so far<br></div><div> > <br></div><div> > Regardless of the origin of the term, the current use of 'man' is to identify adult <br></div><div> > males.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Not really, and "man_made" does not mean that it was made by males.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> > I don't think the use of 'man_made' offends women, but who am I to decide that as I <br></div><div> > am a adult male.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> It seems to me that a lot of males like to speak for women on these issues.<br></div><div> Why? Can't they speak for themselves?<br></div><div> <br></div><div> > I feel that by using any masculine or feminine terms where a suitable alternative <br></div><div> > exists instills the stereotypes based on these terms.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Marriam-webster:<br></div><div> ==<br></div><div> Definition of man-made<br></div><div> : manufactured, created, or constructed by human beings<br></div><div> ==<br></div><div> <br></div><div> <br></div><div> > We don't refer to firefigters as firemen anymore, not do we refer to airline <br></div><div> > attendants as airline hostesses. The world is changing and OSM should adapt to these <br></div><div> > changes if there is enough interest from the OSM community.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> As I mentioned in another email, we do use terms such as midwife.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> <br></div><div> -- <br></div><div> Niels Elgaard Larsen<br></div><div> <br></div><div> _______________________________________________<br></div><div> Tagging mailing list<br></div><div> <a rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br></div><div> <a rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote> </div>
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