<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Hi Everyone,<div><br></div><div>Thank you for the input and feedback thus far, any outstanding commentary is welcome. Amendments to the proposal include a definition of rideshare, example companies, and comment responses on the Discussion page. In-line comments here.</div><div><div><br></div></div><div>Anyone who would like to comment or bring up outstanding questions, please do so for another week. At the end of next week, this proposal could move to voting.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Clare</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 2:41 AM nathan case <<a href="mailto:nathancase@outlook.com" target="_blank">nathancase@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Clare: this is a good discussion to have.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>It seems as though the emergence of rideshare services is still being addressed at various legal levels but, at least in the UK, rideshare vehicles are not classed taxis and so are not ordinarily
entitled to use bus/taxi lanes. If situations exist where rideshares are specifically allowed (or not), and that access is distinct from taxi or a regular motor_vehicle, then a key should exist to denote that. I note that the proposal has been updated to reflect
such cases.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>> </span>Joseph Eisenberg: But you will also need to add a definition of a "rideshare vehicle", since this will need to be translated for places where Lyft and Uber do not operate, and where English
is not used (e.g. Indonesia). Unfortunately I don't see a good online source for a definition.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Perhaps such definitions are dependent upon local/national legislation. In your follow on examples, do those services enjoy the same access rights as PSVs? If yes, then perhaps they should simply
be covered by that tag? If they do not, do they have any additional or fewer access rights than simply motor_vehicle/cycle? If not, then perhaps they should simply be covered by those respective tags?</span> </p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The legal designation could derive from venue/airport, local, county, state, or federal law. Just as u-turns are always technically legal in California unless prohibited, while in Washington they are prohibited unless permitted, there are local laws that are required to fully contextualize map data but are not represented within it. I don't foresee rideshare being default prohibited, so perhaps the example is too extreme, but nevertheless the goal is to encode the specific implications of local law for a given rideshare vehicle rather than law generally.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-GB"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>So a definition could be something along the lines of: “A private hire vehicle, often booked through an online service or a mobile application, that does not enjoy the same legal standing as a taxi
service. Exact definition may depend on local law but usually denotes services such as Uber and Lyft.”
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>A taxi that also takes bookings/collects fares via an app is still a taxi, in my opinion.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Nathan<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Joseph Eisenberg <<a href="mailto:joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com" target="_blank">joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com</a>>
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<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 15, 2020 12:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Rideshare Access<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Clare,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The "proposal" section currently fails to include the actual proposal: that is, what new key and tags are you proposing to use?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">It looks like the proposal is: "approve the use of the new key "rideshare=" with values "yes" and "no" to specify legal access for rideshare vehicles."</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>For the possible values, the expectation is that these include <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access#List_of_possible_values" target="_blank">typical values</a> for other vehicle access, such as {yes, no, designated, local, destination}. We typically encounter cases where the first two values are useful, as noted in the proposal. Cases of "designated" or "destination" access for rideshare vehicles are both plausible and possible. Possible keys are indicated in the existing Access page.<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-GB"><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">But you will also need to add a definition of a "rideshare vehicle", since this will need to be translated for places where Lyft and Uber do not operate, and where English is not used (e.g. Indonesia). Unfortunately I don't see a good online
source for a definition.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Is a Gojek motorcycle a rideshare vehicle? See <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gojek" target="_blank">
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gojek</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">What about pedicabs (tricycles) which are hailed with a smartphone app?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Or should only passenger cars be included?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">What about taxis which also get fares via an app?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">- Joseph Eisenberg<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 1:44 PM Clare Corthell via Tagging <<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Hi Tagging List,</span><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Here is the RFC for the proposal for rideshare vehicle access:</span><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Proposal:
</span><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Rideshare_Access" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Rideshare_Access</span></a><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Discussion:
</span><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Proposed_features/Rideshare_Access" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Proposed_features/Rideshare_Access</span></a><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">This proposes the addition of rideshare as a use-based access mode for land-based transportation. This would enable mapping restriction or permission of rideshare
vehicles to nodes and ways. As mentioned in the proposal </span><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Rideshare_Access#Case_.231:_Denver_Airport" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">example cases</span></a><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">,
this typically arises in dense traffic patterns such as airport pickup zones.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">This proposal originated from the experience of the Lyft mapping team seeking to improve the accuracy of routes we build from an OSM-based map. Because our
rideshare operations are North America based, we bring a perspective that centers the policy for right-of-way in this context. We would especially appreciate feedback on the applicability of this tagging to other parts of the world.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Looking forward to your commentary and feedback.</span><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Clare</span><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Product Manager, Lyft Mapping</span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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Lyft Creates Hyper-Accurate Maps from Open-Source Maps and Real-Time Data</span></i></a></span><span style="font-size:4pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Tagging mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><table style="font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial;font-size:initial;color:rgb(17,17,31)"><tbody><tr><td style="font-family:Arial;font-stretch:normal;font-size:14.4px;line-height:normal;padding:0px 0px 4px;white-space:nowrap"><div style="font-size:14px"><div style="min-width:600px;width:602px;border:1px solid rgb(255,255,255)"><table style="font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;font-size:initial"><tbody><tr><td style="font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;padding:0px 0px 4px"><div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px">Clare Corthell</div><div style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:11px">Product Manager, Lyft Mapping</span></div><div><i><a href="https://eng.lyft.com/how-lyft-creates-hyper-accurate-maps-from-open-source-maps-and-real-time-data-8dcf9abdd46a" target="_blank"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11px">How Lyft Creates Hyper-Accurate Maps from Open-Source Maps and Real-Time Data</span></font></a></i><span style="font-size:5px;font-family:Arial"> </span></div></td></tr><tr><td><img src="https://img.newoldstamp.com/p/30183" width="32"></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>