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    <p>For starters I would oppose using the term "rideshare" for what
      is a taxi/chauffeur service. It should be noted that there are
      actual rideshare organisations and services out there, but uber,
      grab, lyft etc. are not among them, they are simply trying to
      co-opt a term with positive associations for their operations.</p>
    <p>Further, real rideshare services don't get special access
      treatment anywhere I know of, outside of vehicle occupancy
      regulations, which isn't surprising as real ride sharing simply
      involves sharing costs and car on a trip that the driver was going
      to make anyway.</p>
    <p>If there are actual legal differences between taxi and chauffeur
      access somewhere, we could use chauffeur or chauffeur-driven as an
      access tag (better suggestions welcome).<br>
    </p>
    <p>Simon<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 30.10.2020 um 19:42 schrieb Clare
      Corthell via Tagging:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACYuDNv2ZrU0WwH6KFMGPLuMMY64ar06eB8y+cdUqO9cvA2oVg@mail.gmail.com">
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        <div dir="ltr">Hi Everyone,
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Thank you for the input and feedback thus far, any
            outstanding commentary is welcome. Amendments to the
            proposal include a definition of rideshare, example
            companies, and comment responses on the Discussion page.
            In-line comments here.</div>
          <div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div>Anyone who would like to comment or bring up outstanding
            questions, please do so for another week. At the end of next
            week, this proposal could move to voting.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Best,</div>
          <div>Clare</div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 2:41
            AM nathan case <<a href="mailto:nathancase@outlook.com"
              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nathancase@outlook.com</a>>
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
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                <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Clare: this is a good
                    discussion to have. </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span>It seems as though the
                    emergence of rideshare services is still being
                    addressed at various legal levels but, at least in
                    the UK, rideshare vehicles are not classed taxis and
                    so are not ordinarily entitled to use bus/taxi
                    lanes. If situations exist where rideshares are
                    specifically allowed (or not), and that access is
                    distinct from taxi or a regular motor_vehicle, then
                    a key should exist to denote that. I note that the
                    proposal has been updated to reflect such cases.</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span>> </span>Joseph
                  Eisenberg: But you will also need to add a definition
                  of a "rideshare vehicle", since this will need to be
                  translated for places where Lyft and Uber do not
                  operate, and where English is not used (e.g.
                  Indonesia). Unfortunately I don't see a good online
                  source for a definition.</p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Perhaps such definitions are
                    dependent upon local/national legislation. In your
                    follow on examples, do those services enjoy the same
                    access rights as PSVs? If yes, then perhaps they
                    should simply be covered by that tag? If they do
                    not, do they have any additional or fewer access
                    rights than simply motor_vehicle/cycle? If not, then
                    perhaps they should simply be covered by those
                    respective tags?</span> </p>
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          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>The legal designation could derive from venue/airport,
            local, county, state, or federal law. Just as u-turns are
            always technically legal in California unless prohibited,
            while in Washington they are prohibited unless permitted,
            there are local laws that are required to fully
            contextualize map data but are not represented within it. I
            don't foresee rideshare being default prohibited, so perhaps
            the example is too extreme, but nevertheless the goal is to
            encode the specific implications of local law for a given
            rideshare vehicle rather than law generally.</div>
          <div> </div>
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                <p class="MsoNormal"><span></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span>So a definition could be
                    something along the lines of: “A private hire
                    vehicle, often booked through an online service or a
                    mobile application, that does not enjoy the same
                    legal standing as a taxi service. Exact definition
                    may depend on local law but usually denotes services
                    such as Uber and Lyft.” </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span>A taxi that also takes
                    bookings/collects fares via an app is still a taxi,
                    in my opinion.</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Regards,</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Nathan</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                    lang="EN-US"> Joseph Eisenberg <<a
                      href="mailto:joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com</a>>
                    <br>
                    <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 15, 2020 12:32 AM<br>
                    <b>To:</b> Tag discussion, strategy and related
                    tools <<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
                    <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC
                    - Rideshare Access</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">Clare,</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">The "proposal" section
                      currently fails to include the actual proposal:
                      that is, what new key and tags are you proposing
                      to use?</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">It
                      looks like the proposal is: "approve the use of
                      the new key "rideshare=" with values "yes" and
                      "no" to specify legal access for rideshare
                      vehicles."</p>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <div>For the possible values, the expectation is that these
            include <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access#List_of_possible_values"
              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">typical values</a>
            for other vehicle access, such as {yes, no, designated,
            local, destination}. We typically encounter cases where the
            first two values are useful, as noted in the proposal. Cases
            of "designated" or "destination" access for rideshare
            vehicles are both plausible and possible. Possible keys are
            indicated in the existing Access page.<br>
          </div>
          <div> </div>
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                  <div> </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">But you will also need to add a
                      definition of a "rideshare vehicle", since this
                      will need to be translated for places where Lyft
                      and Uber do not operate, and where English is not
                      used (e.g. Indonesia). Unfortunately I don't see a
                      good online source for a definition.</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">Is a Gojek motorcycle a
                      rideshare vehicle? See <a
                        href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gojek"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gojek</a></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">What about pedicabs (tricycles)
                      which are hailed with a smartphone app?</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">Or should only passenger cars
                      be included?</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">What about taxis which also get
                      fares via an app?</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">- Joseph Eisenberg</p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 1:44 PM
                      Clare Corthell via Tagging <<a
                        href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>>
                      wrote:</p>
                  </div>
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                      <p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span
                          style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Hi
                          Tagging List,</span><span
                          style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"> </span></p>
                      <p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span
                          style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Here
                          is the RFC for the proposal for rideshare
                          vehicle access:</span><span
                          style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"> </span></p>
                      <p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span
                          style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Proposal:
                        </span><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Rideshare_Access"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                            style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Rideshare_Access</span></a><span
                          style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"></span></p>
                      <p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span
                          style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Discussion:
                        </span><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Proposed_features/Rideshare_Access"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                            style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Proposed_features/Rideshare_Access</span></a><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span
                          style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      <p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span
                          style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">This
                          proposes the addition of rideshare as a
                          use-based access mode for land-based
                          transportation. This would enable mapping
                          restriction or permission of rideshare
                          vehicles to nodes and ways. As mentioned in
                          the proposal </span><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Rideshare_Access#Case_.231:_Denver_Airport"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                            style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">example
                            cases</span></a><span
                          style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">,
                          this typically arises in dense traffic
                          patterns such as airport pickup zones.</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      <p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span
                          style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">This
                          proposal originated from the experience of the
                          Lyft mapping team seeking to improve the
                          accuracy of routes we build from an OSM-based
                          map. Because our rideshare operations are
                          North America based, we bring a perspective
                          that centers the policy for right-of-way in
                          this context. We would especially appreciate
                          feedback on the applicability of this tagging
                          to other parts of the world.</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"> </span></p>
                      <p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span
                          style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Looking
                          forward to your commentary and feedback.</span><span
                          style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"> </span></p>
                      <p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span
                          style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Clare</span><span
                          style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"></span></p>
                      <br>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
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