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    <p>Hi,</p>
    <p>While the original proposal did specify that generators are
      usually diesel, broadening the definition would only lead to a
      loss of detail, but the tagging would still be correct. I'm
      hesitant to use <b>offgrid</b> as a building that has, for
      example, a grid connection with solar panels on the roof would
      then be tagged as <b>electricity=grid;offgrid</b> instead of <b>electricity=grid;generator</b>.
      The former is illogical. <br>
    </p>
    <p>However, I don't have any experience in developing countries: is
      it easier to verify if something is off-grid compared to if it is
      connected to a generator? And, would it be necessary to
      differentiate between local grids (i.e. 2-3 generators, no
      substations, transfromers, etc.) and national grids? Perhaps then
      a network tag would be useful, i.e. network=national, local,
      regional similar to the way cycle networks are mapped?<br>
    </p>
    <p>A further suggestion was to change the tagging to<b> </b><b>electricity:grid=yes/no/backup</b>
      and/or <b>electricity:generator=yes/no/backup</b>. This might be
      less ambiguous for tagging amenities or buildings that get
      electricity from both sources and would then be more consistent
      with tagging such as <b>electricity:generator:origin=diesel</b>
      when, e.g. a building has a backup diesel generator but is
      connected to the grid. Unfortunately, it would then not be
      consistent with the use by the Healthsites Mapping Project,
      although this already has the inconsistent <b>electricity=none</b>
      tag which should probably be changed directly to <b>electricity=no.</b>
      <br>
    </p>
    <p>Cheers, Lukas<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/11/2020 07:14, Dolly
      Andriatsiferana wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CABzN_KJtOjf=iwHy=Eq7uPoFa4mEVxfPBOhAJ1fLGmbiJap1Wg@mail.gmail.com">
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      <div dir="ltr">Hi all,
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Thanks a lot Lukas for reworking this proposal.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I like Joseph's idea of <b>electricity=grid/offgrid/yes/no</b> if
          you're introducing <b>electricity:origin=</b>*. </div>
        <div>I'd suggest dropping the generator value as it brings
          confusion and can be difficult to verify. Originally
          electricity=generator seemed to be intended for diesel
          devices, but I think we should use something like
          electricity:origin=diesel for it instead.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>@Volker, I understand the tag might be less relevant in
          developed countries where it is normal to have electricity.
          But electricity availability is an important information in
          many developing countries (like mine) where most of the
          population is not connected to the electricity grid. It would
          be useful for health facilities and accommodation buildings...
          - See Healthsites' data model at <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Global_Healthsites_Mapping_Project"
            moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Global_Healthsites_Mapping_Project</a>
          where the tag is used.<br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Good job, Lukas!</div>
        <br clear="all">
        <div>
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
            data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
            <div dir="ltr"><font color="#999999">--</font>
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                    <td><span
style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:1.2em;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font
                          color="#999999">Dolly Andriatsiferana</font></span></td>
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            </div>
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        </div>
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      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 4:11 AM
          Lukas Richert <<a href="mailto:lrichert@posteo.de"
            moz-do-not-send="true">lrichert@posteo.de</a>> wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div>
            <p>And, final email, I reworked the proposal page to include
              tagged examples and explained some implicit defintions in
              more detail.</p>
            <p> <a
                href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/electricity"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/electricity</a></p>
            <p>Cheers</p>
            <p><br>
            </p>
            <div>On 30/10/2020 13:44, Lukas Richert wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <p>Since a lot of people apparently didnt see the RFC the
                first time, I'll go back to RFC status for now. (I
                thought the threads were sorted by subject title of the
                email and didnt check online if it was actually visible.
                )</p>
              <p>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
              </p>
              <p>The original message: <br>
              </p>
              <p>Hello all, <br>
                <br>
                after the comments on the confusing nature of the word
                'source' in my original proposal of
                'electricity:source', I have now changed the name to
                'electricity:origin' as suggested on the discussion
                page. Furthermore, I would like to revive and extend the
                proposal of the key 'electricity' as this previously
                conflicted with parts of the electricity:source proposal
                and was not consistent. <br>
                <br>
                Both proposal pages: <br>
                <br>
                [1] <a
                  href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/electricity"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/electricity</a>
                <br>
                <br>
                [2] <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_features/electricity:source"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_features/electricity:source</a>
                <br>
                <br>
                The idea now is to allow for the tagging of buildings or
                amenities that have electricity. The rationale is
                described in more detail at [1]. Tags such as access,
                fee, schedule and origin can then narrow down the
                availability to the public and the question of financial
                or direct origin of the electricity. <br>
                <br>
                This is distinct from the drafted tag power_supply as it
                is used to describe the type of sockets used at a
                specific outlet. The values for that tag are still
                currently under discussion. <br>
                <br>
                I would also not tag this as a subset of power=* as this
                maps the facilities and features that relate to the
                generation and distribution of electrical power and
                should not be used to map the consumers of electricity.<br>
              </p>
              <p> <br>
                I am eager to hear the feedback to the revised
                proposals! <br>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p>
              <p>Also, perhaps relevant: both the  <a
                  href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_supply"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">power_supply</a>
                and <a
                  href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:socket"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">socket</a> 
                keys describe the same feature. power_supply so far has
                occasionally been used in the manner that electricity
                proposes to be. Unfortunately, the proposal for
                power_supply is relatively inconsistent. I think the
                socket:* tag is better thought out and also currently
                more used. I would be in favor of deprecating
                power_supply and separating the two meanings it
                currently has into electricity=* and socket:*=#.</p>
              <p>Regards,</p>
              <p>Lukas</p>
              <br>
              <fieldset></fieldset>
              <pre>_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          Tagging mailing list<br>
          <a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank"
            moz-do-not-send="true">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
          <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging"
            rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
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