<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">> Re: "Perhaps it would also be possible to then tag electricity:grid=yes and electricity=no in the case of grid connected houses experiencing a long-term power outage during a natural disaster?"</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div>Generally OpenStreetMap data is not updated frequently enough by mappers and database users for us to map temporary states (e.g. anything which lasts less than 6 months). Many database users will download a data extract for offline use and only update this every 3 months or so - see Maps.me for example, and perhaps facebook's use of OpenStreetMap data.</div><div><br></div><div>And most objects in OpenStreetMap are currently only checked and updated once every few years. </div><div><br></div><div>Perhaps someday the community of mappers will be vibrant enough that we could imagine updating tags every month or every week, but at this point such a situation is very far away. So for now we should encourage mappers to focus on permanent or semi-permanent characteristics which are unlikely to change in the next few months.</div><div><br></div><div>-- Joseph Eisenberg</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 6:36 AM Lukas Richert <<a href="mailto:lrichert@posteo.de">lrichert@posteo.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>I have now switched over the tagging and examples to the
namespace based tagging of grid and generator. Overall, this makes
it easier and clearer to tag backup generators and grid-connected
houses with solar panels etc IMO. Perhaps it would also be
possible to then tag electricity:grid=yes and electricity=no in
the case of grid connected houses experiencing a long-term power
outage during a natural disaster?<br>
</p>
<p><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/electricity" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/electricity</a></p>
<p>Regards, Lukas<br>
</p>
<div>On 03/11/2020 22:07, Lukas Richert
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>I also think the <b>electricity:grid=yes/no/backup</b> and <b>electricity:generator=yes/no/backup</b>
tags are clearer and would allow for off-grid buildings to be
tagged more distinctly. <br>
</p>
<p>The electricity tag isn't used a lot yet. I have no experience
with automated or semi-automated edits, but perhaps changing
electricity=none and electricity=grid to electricity:grid=yes
would be relatively straightforward? (This is unfortunately the
problem with people adding major undiscussed/proposed tags to
the main wiki. Especially power_supply is frustrating. )</p>
<p>What do others think about the tag options</p>
<blockquote>electricity:grid=yes/no/backup<br>
electricity:generator=yes/no/backup<br>
electricity=yes <br>
electricity=no<br>
</blockquote>
<p>[electricity=yes would be used when grid or generator is
unknown] instead of <br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p>electricity=grid<br>
electricity=generator<br>
electricity=yes<br>
electricity=no</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Cheers Lukas<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 03/11/2020 21:20, Andrew Harvey
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 at
00:13, Lukas Richert <<a href="mailto:lrichert@posteo.de" target="_blank">lrichert@posteo.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hi,</p>
<p>While the original proposal did specify that
generators are usually diesel, broadening the
definition would only lead to a loss of detail, but
the tagging would still be correct. I'm hesitant to
use <b>offgrid</b> as a building that has, for
example, a grid connection with solar panels on the
roof would then be tagged as <b>electricity=grid;offgrid</b>
instead of <b>electricity=grid;generator</b>. The
former is illogical. <br>
</p>
<p>However, I don't have any experience in developing
countries: is it easier to verify if something is
off-grid compared to if it is connected to a
generator? And, would it be necessary to differentiate
between local grids (i.e. 2-3 generators, no
substations, transfromers, etc.) and national grids?
Perhaps then a network tag would be useful, i.e.
network=national, local, regional similar to the way
cycle networks are mapped?<br>
</p>
<p>A further suggestion was to change the tagging to<b>
</b><b>electricity:grid=yes/no/backup</b> and/or <b>electricity:generator=yes/no/backup</b>.
This might be less ambiguous for tagging amenities or
buildings that get electricity from both sources and
would then be more consistent with tagging such as <b>electricity:generator:origin=diesel</b>
when, e.g. a building has a backup diesel generator
but is connected to the grid. Unfortunately, it would
then not be consistent with the use by the Healthsites
Mapping Project, although this already has the
inconsistent <b>electricity=none</b> tag which should
probably be changed directly to <b>electricity=no.</b> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Here is the link to that suggestion I made <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/electricity#multiple_values" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/electricity#multiple_values</a> and <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/electricity#origin_of_different_sources" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/electricity#origin_of_different_sources</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The whole point of the proposal process is to identify
these potential issues, resolve them, and get community
agreement. If the goal is just to implement someone else's
standard then we can't use the wisdom of the community
here to improve the tag, therefore I'm not too fussed
about making this match what another project is using,
instead we should aim to have the best tags and
documentation as the outcome of this proposal process.
Then if that's different, other projects closely tied to
OSM can migrate to the OSM community accepted schema.</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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