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    <p>The tagging from the original proposal has now changed
      significantly in the past weeks and, I think, has gotten more
      robust and modular. It has, however, then lost backwards
      compatability although the tag was not used often and it should be
      straightforward to migrate the tags to the new scheme. I'd be
      happy to hear more feedback on the proposal as it currently
      stands. Otherwise, if discussion concludes this week I would then
      move on to voting next week.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Cheers, Lukas</p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/11/2020 15:32, Lukas Richert
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
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      cite="mid:0073cfe3-0bec-0f10-182d-fb07ebe3c58b@posteo.de">
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      <p>I have now switched over the tagging and examples to the
        namespace based tagging of grid and generator. Overall, this
        makes it easier and clearer to tag backup generators and
        grid-connected houses with solar panels etc IMO. Perhaps it
        would also be possible to then tag electricity:grid=yes and
        electricity=no in the case of grid connected houses experiencing
        a long-term power outage during a natural disaster?<br>
      </p>
      <p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
          href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/electricity"
          moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/electricity</a></p>
      <p>Regards, Lukas<br>
      </p>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/11/2020 22:07, Lukas Richert
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
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        cite="mid:39e5f957-1870-cd12-381f-9828bd79eeca@posteo.de">
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        <p>I also think the <b>electricity:grid=yes/no/backup</b> and <b>electricity:generator=yes/no/backup</b>
          tags are clearer and would allow for off-grid buildings to be
          tagged more distinctly. <br>
        </p>
        <p>The electricity tag isn't used a lot yet. I have no
          experience with automated or semi-automated edits, but perhaps
          changing electricity=none and electricity=grid to
          electricity:grid=yes would be relatively straightforward?
          (This is unfortunately the problem with people adding major
          undiscussed/proposed tags to the main wiki. Especially
          power_supply is frustrating. )</p>
        <p>What do others think about the tag options</p>
        <blockquote>electricity:grid=yes/no/backup<br>
          electricity:generator=yes/no/backup<br>
          electricity=yes                                              
          <br>
          electricity=no<br>
        </blockquote>
        <p>[electricity=yes would be used when grid or generator is
          unknown] instead of <br>
        </p>
        <blockquote>
          <p>electricity=grid<br>
            electricity=generator<br>
            electricity=yes<br>
            electricity=no</p>
        </blockquote>
        <p>Cheers Lukas<br>
        </p>
        <p><br>
        </p>
        <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/11/2020 21:20, Andrew Harvey
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
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cite="mid:CAD5VjstVd1UmaRoXfD4qBhh9F21ra9YK05sBWdn6KRcqRM-C6A@mail.gmail.com">
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            <br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">
              <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 at
                00:13, Lukas Richert <<a
                  href="mailto:lrichert@posteo.de"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">lrichert@posteo.de</a>>
                wrote:<br>
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                <div>
                  <p>Hi,</p>
                  <p>While the original proposal did specify that
                    generators are usually diesel, broadening the
                    definition would only lead to a loss of detail, but
                    the tagging would still be correct. I'm hesitant to
                    use <b>offgrid</b> as a building that has, for
                    example, a grid connection with solar panels on the
                    roof would then be tagged as <b>electricity=grid;offgrid</b>
                    instead of <b>electricity=grid;generator</b>. The
                    former is illogical. <br>
                  </p>
                  <p>However, I don't have any experience in developing
                    countries: is it easier to verify if something is
                    off-grid compared to if it is connected to a
                    generator? And, would it be necessary to
                    differentiate between local grids (i.e. 2-3
                    generators, no substations, transfromers, etc.) and
                    national grids? Perhaps then a network tag would be
                    useful, i.e. network=national, local, regional
                    similar to the way cycle networks are mapped?<br>
                  </p>
                  <p>A further suggestion was to change the tagging to<b>
                    </b><b>electricity:grid=yes/no/backup</b> and/or <b>electricity:generator=yes/no/backup</b>.
                    This might be less ambiguous for tagging amenities
                    or buildings that get electricity from both sources
                    and would then be more consistent with tagging such
                    as <b>electricity:generator:origin=diesel</b> when,
                    e.g. a building has a backup diesel generator but is
                    connected to the grid. Unfortunately, it would then
                    not be consistent with the use by the Healthsites
                    Mapping Project, although this already has the
                    inconsistent <b>electricity=none</b> tag which
                    should probably be changed directly to <b>electricity=no.</b> </p>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
              <div>Here is the link to that suggestion I made <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/electricity#multiple_values"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/electricity#multiple_values</a> and <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/electricity#origin_of_different_sources"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/electricity#origin_of_different_sources</a></div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>The whole point of the proposal process is to
                identify these potential issues, resolve them, and get
                community agreement. If the goal is just to implement
                someone else's standard then we can't use the wisdom of
                the community here to improve the tag, therefore I'm not
                too fussed about making this match what another project
                is using, instead we should aim to have the best tags
                and documentation as the outcome of this proposal
                process. Then if that's different, other projects
                closely tied to OSM can migrate to the OSM community
                accepted schema.</div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
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          <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
        </blockquote>
        <br>
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        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
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