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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I strongly disagree with the notion of splitting ponds and lakes by natural or artificial/man-made.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Not only is this often incredibly difficult to verify, it also leads to this complex situation of needing multiple tags for what are, essentially, the same features.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The current notion of an artificial/man-made lake being a reservoir is non-sense. Artificial lakes are still lakes. Additionally, not all reservoirs are artificial – some are natural.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Best.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 12, 2020 1:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <tagging@openstreetmap.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tagging] Deprecate water=pond?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ok, it looks like enough people feel that a very small artificial water body, like a decorative pond in a residential garden, shouldn't be tagged as water=reservoir or water=basin, so we need a replacement.<br>
<br>
I can see the logic behind that, if a reservoir is thought to be larger and must have a dam on one side, and a basin is artificially graded. A small koi pond or decorative pool isn't exactly the same.
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<br>
The current problem with water=pond is that many are completely natural features, but almost all other values of water=* are clearly natural (or semi-natural), or clearly artificial, so water=pond is losing this information which otherwise should be conveyed
by the key water=*. Since it is unlikely that we could check 1 million water=pond features quickly, it's not reasonable to redefine the meaning of this tag, but we can create a new tag or several replacement tags which are more specific, and encourage use
of those instead. <o:p></o:p></p>
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But we need to have a clear description which will translate into other languages and cultures. For example, in Papua Indonesia, most Trans-New Guinea languages use 1 word for all types of "water", including rivers, streams, lakes, and the sea, so they won't
see a difference between a "lake" and a "pond" unless you clearly describe it.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
There are already several other more specific tags for small artificial water bodies, in use:<br>
(<a href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/?key=water#values">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/?key=water#values</a>)<br>
- water=reflecting_pool - "A reflecting pool: a water feature found in gardens, parks, and at memorial sites. It usually consists of a shallow pool of water, undisturbed by fountain jets, for a calm reflective surface."<br>
- water=moat - A deep, wide defensive ditch, normally filled with water, surrounding a fortified habitation.<br>
- water=wastewater - A clarifier/settling basin of a wastewater treatment plant.<br>
- water=fountain<br>
- water=fishpond<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">And as mentioned before, there are water=reservoir (<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#202122;background:#F9F9F9">A </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservoir" title="wikipedia:Reservoir"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#663366;text-decoration:none">reservoir</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#202122;background:#F9F9F9"> or
an artificial lake is used to store water. )</span> and water=basin (<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#202122;background:#F9F9F9">An area of land artificially graded to hold water.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#202122;background:#F9F9F9"><br>
</span>So perhaps we could create a new tag water=natural_pond for small, natural or semi-natural lakes which are currently tagged as water=pond, and water=artificial_pond or water=man_made_pond for the majority of water=pond features which are clearly not
natural, such as ponds in gardens.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- Joseph Eisenberg<o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 1:59 AM Andy Mabbett <<a href="mailto:andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk">andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 05:26, Joseph Eisenberg<br>
> <<a href="mailto:joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com">joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> > I think the best option is to deprecate water=pond and suggest using water=lake for<br>
> > natural lakes, even small ones, and use water=reservoir or water=basin (or<br>
> > landuse=reservoir or =basin if you prefer) for the artificial ones.<o:p></o:p></p>
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