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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hello,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Route relations 'group' together the
nodes/ways/relations that form a cycling route. The
nodes/ways/relations themselves should not be tagged with the name
of the route, like you quoted the wiki.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">The name of a way should be the
official name of the way, not the name of the relation(s) that way
is part of. I refer to Key:name [1] which states "The names should
be restricted to the name of the item in question only and should
not include additional information not contained in the official
name such as categories, types, descriptions, addresses, refs, or
notes."</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">So the question remains for the ways
you mention that are tagged with name of the cycling route. Are
those ways officially named exactly as the relation name? If not,
I would classify this situation as 'tagging for the renderer'
(getting the renderer to show the name of the cycling route).</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On the subject of rendering: there are
many renderers that show cycling route relations [2]. Some of them
[3] are even advanced enough to grasp the concept of
'superroutes'/'parentroutes' [4] that are common when tagging
gigantic routes that span Europe like the EuroVelo cycling routes
[5].<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Kind regards,<br>
<i>Hidde Wieringa</i><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">[1] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name</a></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">[2] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycle_routes#Rendered_cycle_maps">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycle_routes#Rendered_cycle_maps</a></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">[3] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org">https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org</a></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">[4] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:superroute">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:superroute</a><br>
</div>
[5]
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/#route?id=2763798&map=4!57.9189!7.9873">https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/#route?id=2763798&map=4!57.9189!7.9873<br>
</a>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16-11-2020 17:17, Seth Deegan wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAk9NO+HuE7sw6hwX6m5BOHus1Tzg9v5Ze77BLZWgDU5vFBfSg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<p style="margin:0.5em
0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">The
<a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycle_routes#Tagging_cycle_route_networks"
moz-do-not-send="true">Cycle Routes Wiki Page</a> states:</p>
<dl
style="margin-top:0.2em;margin-bottom:0.5em;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<dd
style="margin-left:1.6em;margin-bottom:0.1em;margin-right:0px">"It
is preferred to tag the cycle routes using relations instead
of tagging the ways."</dd>
</dl>
<p style="margin:0.5em
0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">If
I come across a route that has the Ways already tagged with
the <tt dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:1em;direction:ltr;background:rgb(238,238,255);line-height:1.6"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name"
title="Key:name"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
moz-do-not-send="true">name</a>=*</tt> of the route, can I
delete the <tt dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:1em;direction:ltr;background:rgb(238,238,255);line-height:1.6"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name"
title="Key:name"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
moz-do-not-send="true">name</a>=*</tt>s in the Ways and
just create a Route Relation with the name?</p>
<p style="margin:0.5em
0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">I
assume this is not prefered because a number of applications
use the names in the Ways themselves and not the Route
Relation, most notably osm-carto.</p>
<p style="margin:0.5em
0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">However,
some benefits of doing this might be:</p>
<ul style="margin:0.3em 0px 0px
1.6em;padding:0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<li style="margin-bottom:0.1em">Takes up less space in the DB</li>
<li style="margin-bottom:0.1em">More tags that apply to the
whole coute could be added to the Relation like <tt
dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:1em;direction:ltr;background:rgb(238,238,255);line-height:1.6"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface"
title="Key:surface"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
moz-do-not-send="true">surface</a>=*</tt> and <tt
dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:1em;direction:ltr;background:rgb(238,238,255);line-height:1.6"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source"
title="Key:source"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
moz-do-not-send="true">source</a>=*</tt> (like the
official map of the route).</li>
<li style="margin-bottom:0.1em">Ways with two or more routes
wouldn't be tagged <tt dir="ltr"
class="gmail-mw-content-ltr"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:1em;direction:ltr;background:rgb(238,238,255);line-height:1.6"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name"
title="Key:name"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
moz-do-not-send="true">name</a>=<a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:name%3Droute_1_%26_route_2&action=edit&redlink=1"
class="gmail-new" title="Tag:name=route 1 & route 2
(page does not exist)"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(165,88,88);background:none"
moz-do-not-send="true">route 1 & route 2</a></tt> and
instead have their respective Relations. This could help
with preferred routing/data usage in general.</li>
</ul>
<div><font face="sans-serif" color="#202122"><span
style="font-size:14px"><br>
</span></font></div>
<p style="margin:0.5em
0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">I
would propose that <i>all</i> routes and their names should be
tagged in a Relation and <i>never</i> the Ways, even if the
Route Relation only has <i>one member</i>. </p>
<p style="margin:0.5em
0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">This
way data consumers know that all Routes are going to be
relations. Also future Routes mapped that share the Way of a
Route that does not have Relation, won't require the mapper to
shift all of the data stored in the Way to a new Relation. </p>
<p style="margin:0.5em
0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">Also,
if <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Relation:street"
title="Proposed features/Relation:street"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
moz-do-not-send="true">Proposed features/Relation:street</a> is
ever approved, this would help establish a consistent OSM-wide
routing standard.</p>
<p style="margin:0.5em
0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><b><br>
</b></p>
<p style="margin:0.5em
0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><b>As
for now</b>, I do not think that we should be deleting the <tt
dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:1em;direction:ltr;background:rgb(238,238,255);line-height:1.6"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name"
title="Key:name"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
moz-do-not-send="true">name</a>=*</tt>s of Ways. However,
I think osm-carto <i>should</i> render and <i>prefer</i> to
render Relation names for Cycle routes over the names of the
Ways. The Editors should also somehow influence users to map
Relations for Cycle routes instead of naming them.</p>
<p style="margin:0.5em
0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin:0.5em
0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">Thoughts?</p>
<div>Seth Deegan (lectrician1)</div>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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