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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hello,</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Route relations 'group' together the
      nodes/ways/relations that form a cycling route. The
      nodes/ways/relations themselves should not be tagged with the name
      of the route, like you quoted the wiki.</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">The name of a way should be the
      official name of the way, not the name of the relation(s) that way
      is part of. I refer to Key:name [1] which states "The names should
      be restricted to the name of the item in question only and should
      not include additional information not contained in the official
      name such as categories, types, descriptions, addresses, refs, or
      notes."</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">So the question remains for the ways
      you mention that are tagged with name of the cycling route. Are
      those ways officially named exactly as the relation name? If not,
      I would classify this situation as 'tagging for the renderer'
      (getting the renderer to show the name of the cycling route).</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On the subject of rendering: there are
      many renderers that show cycling route relations [2]. Some of them
      [3] are even advanced enough to grasp the concept of
      'superroutes'/'parentroutes' [4] that are common when tagging
      gigantic routes that span Europe like the EuroVelo cycling routes
      [5].<br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Kind regards,<br>
      <i>Hidde Wieringa</i><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">[1] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
        href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name</a></div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">[2] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycle_routes#Rendered_cycle_maps">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycle_routes#Rendered_cycle_maps</a></div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">[3] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
        href="https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org">https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org</a></div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">[4] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
        href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:superroute">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:superroute</a><br>
    </div>
    [5]
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/#route?id=2763798&map=4!57.9189!7.9873">https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/#route?id=2763798&map=4!57.9189!7.9873<br>
    </a>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16-11-2020 17:17, Seth Deegan wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAk9NO+HuE7sw6hwX6m5BOHus1Tzg9v5Ze77BLZWgDU5vFBfSg@mail.gmail.com">
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      <div dir="ltr">
        <p style="margin:0.5em
          0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">The
          <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycle_routes#Tagging_cycle_route_networks"
            moz-do-not-send="true">Cycle Routes Wiki Page</a> states:</p>
        <dl
style="margin-top:0.2em;margin-bottom:0.5em;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">
          <dd
            style="margin-left:1.6em;margin-bottom:0.1em;margin-right:0px">"It
            is preferred to tag the cycle routes using relations instead
            of tagging the ways."</dd>
        </dl>
        <p style="margin:0.5em
          0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">If
          I come across a route that has the Ways already tagged with
          the <tt dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:1em;direction:ltr;background:rgb(238,238,255);line-height:1.6"><a
              href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name"
              title="Key:name"
              style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
              moz-do-not-send="true">name</a>=*</tt> of the route, can I
          delete the <tt dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:1em;direction:ltr;background:rgb(238,238,255);line-height:1.6"><a
              href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name"
              title="Key:name"
              style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
              moz-do-not-send="true">name</a>=*</tt>s in the Ways and
          just create a Route Relation with the name?</p>
        <p style="margin:0.5em
          0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">I
          assume this is not prefered because a number of applications
          use the names in the Ways themselves and not the Route
          Relation, most notably osm-carto.</p>
        <p style="margin:0.5em
          0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">However,
          some benefits of doing this might be:</p>
        <ul style="margin:0.3em 0px 0px
1.6em;padding:0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">
          <li style="margin-bottom:0.1em">Takes up less space in the DB</li>
          <li style="margin-bottom:0.1em">More tags that apply to the
            whole coute could be added to the Relation like <tt
              dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:1em;direction:ltr;background:rgb(238,238,255);line-height:1.6"><a
                href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface"
                title="Key:surface"
                style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
                moz-do-not-send="true">surface</a>=*</tt> and <tt
              dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:1em;direction:ltr;background:rgb(238,238,255);line-height:1.6"><a
                href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source"
                title="Key:source"
                style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
                moz-do-not-send="true">source</a>=*</tt> (like the
            official map of the route).</li>
          <li style="margin-bottom:0.1em">Ways with two or more routes
            wouldn't be tagged <tt dir="ltr"
              class="gmail-mw-content-ltr"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:1em;direction:ltr;background:rgb(238,238,255);line-height:1.6"><a
                href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name"
                title="Key:name"
                style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
                moz-do-not-send="true">name</a>=<a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:name%3Droute_1_%26_route_2&action=edit&redlink=1"
                class="gmail-new" title="Tag:name=route 1 & route 2
                (page does not exist)"
                style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(165,88,88);background:none"
                moz-do-not-send="true">route 1 & route 2</a></tt> and
            instead have their respective Relations. This could help
            with preferred routing/data usage in general.</li>
        </ul>
        <div><font face="sans-serif" color="#202122"><span
              style="font-size:14px"><br>
            </span></font></div>
        <p style="margin:0.5em
          0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">I
          would propose that <i>all</i> routes and their names should be
          tagged in a Relation and <i>never</i> the Ways, even if the
          Route Relation only has <i>one member</i>. </p>
        <p style="margin:0.5em
          0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">This
          way data consumers know that all Routes are going to be
          relations. Also future Routes mapped that share the Way of a
          Route that does not have Relation, won't require the mapper to
          shift all of the data stored in the Way to a new Relation. </p>
        <p style="margin:0.5em
          0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">Also,
          if <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Relation:street"
            title="Proposed features/Relation:street"
            style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
            moz-do-not-send="true">Proposed features/Relation:street</a> is
          ever approved, this would help establish a consistent OSM-wide
          routing standard.</p>
        <p style="margin:0.5em
          0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><b><br>
          </b></p>
        <p style="margin:0.5em
          0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><b>As
            for now</b>, I do not think that we should be deleting the <tt
            dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:1em;direction:ltr;background:rgb(238,238,255);line-height:1.6"><a
              href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name"
              title="Key:name"
              style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
              moz-do-not-send="true">name</a>=*</tt>s of Ways. However,
          I think osm-carto <i>should</i> render and <i>prefer</i> to
          render Relation names for Cycle routes over the names of the
          Ways. The Editors should also somehow influence users to map
          Relations for Cycle routes instead of naming them.</p>
        <p style="margin:0.5em
          0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br>
        </p>
        <p style="margin:0.5em
          0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">Thoughts?</p>
        <div>Seth Deegan (lectrician1)</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
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