<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br clear="all"><br></div><div>With some comments copied from the discussion page to keep people who may not be following both, up to date.<br></div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 22 Dec 2020 at 18:15, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div><br><div>marine rescue defined to not be limited to marine is quite ugly<br></div><div><br></div><div>Is term "water rescue" clear and acceptable? (not a native speaker)<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>As Andrew said, not really very clear & easily confused with lifeguards, especially when there is a tag of {{tag|emergency=water_rescue_station}}, which, although apparently never discussed, appears to be a direct translation of the German"
Wasserrettungsstation", & which should probably be merged with one of the existing lifeguard tags?</div><div><br></div><div>Marine Rescue is a widely accepted term for those units that are dedicated to the rescue of vessels &/or sailors in distress, & should not cause any confusion.<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><blockquote style="border-left:1px solid rgb(147,163,184);padding-left:10px;margin-left:5px"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>However, a lot of the inland rescue stations that I have looked at, appear to be lifeguard services intended to look after swimmers close to shore, rather than vessels &/or sailors in deeper waters, so they should probably be listed under one of the lifeguard tags?<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div>At least <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=54.0312&mlon=21.7749#map=12/54.0312/21.7749" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=54.0312&mlon=21.7749#map=12/54.0312/21.7749</a><br></div><div>(at relatively small lake) has[1] speedboats and other equipment capable of rescuing people<br></div><div>sailing in deeper waters, about 1.5 km from shore (not farther, as middle of lake is <br></div><div>1-2 km from nearest land). In the worst case they would rescuing (coordinating rescue)<br></div><div>from big tourism ships circling lake and carrying about 100-200 people or people from sailing<br></div><div>boats who ignored warning of an incoming storm.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>
Yes, they do have that capability, the same as dedicated Blue-Water
Marine Rescue units have the capability of rescuing swimmers who get
into trouble close to the beach, & even in rivers - Been There, Done
That!, but it's not their primary intended function. In a similar way,
in the past Police have put out fires & delivered babies, & Fire
Brigade personnel have detained criminals, but while they "can" do it,
that is not their <i>designated</i> role, so we don't call Police, Fire Brigade or Ambulance, & we don't call Fire Brigade, Police. In OSM, just because a shop
sells lollies, chips & soft drinks, we don't call it a convenience
store, we call it a newsagent, because that is its primary role. Units
that are <i>primarily</i> intended as lifeguards ie guarding swimmers,
should be called (one of the varieties of) "lifeguard", while units that
are intended to help vessels / sailors in distress should be Marine
Rescue. <br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>I am not familiar with Baikal or other actually big lakes but I expect that they may have<br></div><div>similar or more serious rescue services, comparable with marine ones.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>
<ul><li>I don't know about Baikal either, but, TBMK, there are no dedicated
rescue units, either for boats or swimmers, on any lake, dam or river in
Australia. If a boat doesn't return, it becomes a Water Police case,
usually assisted by the State Emergency Service, both of whom have to
bring their boats to the scene via trailers on road, & other private
vessels.</li><li><br></li><li>It turns out that yes, there is a Rescue unit covering the Baikal area: <a rel="nofollow" href="https://en.mchs.gov.ru/Ministry/Forces/search-and-rescue-service/baikal-search-and-rescue-unit" target="_blank">https://en.mchs.gov.ru/Ministry/Forces/search-and-rescue-service/baikal-search-and-rescue-unit</a>, but, despite the photo of a very nice Rescue boat, I would classify them under the emergency=disaster_response tag</li></ul> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><blockquote style="border-left:1px solid rgb(147,163,184);padding-left:10px;margin-left:5px"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Looking at some of the existing lifeboat tags, I've also noticed that virtually all of them are tagged as both amenity=lifeboat & also emergency=lifeboat, which would seem to break the One Tag Only rule? <br></div></div></div></blockquote><div>We have no "one tag rule". There may be confusion with<br></div><div><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/One_feature,_one_OSM_element" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/One_feature,_one_OSM_element</a></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sorry, yes, I used the wrong wording, but regardless, using two tags on one feature, such as the Tower Lifeboat Station you mentioned earlier <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/186177881" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/186177881</a>, would seem incorrect?</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>Great! I was mentioning this because there were cases of confused people who <br></div><div>thought that OSM Carto (default map style) is obligated to follow outcomes<br></div><div>of proposal process, including implementation of proposed rendering rules.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, understood. I'm sure that will be another spirited discussion!</div><div><br> </div><div>
Thanks<div><br></div><div>Graeme</div></div><br></div></div></div>