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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi,<br>
<span class="VIiyi" jsaction="mouseup:BR6jm" jsname="jqKxS"
lang="en"><span
jsaction="agoMJf:PFBcW;usxOmf:aWLT7;jhKsnd:P7O7bd,F8DmGf;Q4AGo:Gm7gYd,qAKMYb;uFUCPb:pvnm0e,pfE8Hb,PFBcW;f56efd:dJXsye;EnoYf:KNzws,ZJsZZ,JgVSJc;zdMJQc:cCQNKb,ZJsZZ,zchEXc;Ytrrj:JJDvdc;tNR8yc:GeFvjb;oFN6Ye:hij5Wb"
jscontroller="Zl5N8" jsmodel="SsMkhd" jsname="txFAF"
class="JLqJ4b ChMk0b" data-language-for-alternatives="en"
data-language-to-translate-into="auto" data-phrase-index="0"
jsdata="uqLsIf;_;$679"><span
jsaction="click:qtZ4nf,GFf3ac,tMZCfe;
contextmenu:Nqw7Te,QP7LD; mouseout:Nqw7Te;
mouseover:qtZ4nf,c2aHje" jsname="W297wb">A few years ago I
started collecting pictures of typical pavements I took on
our bike tours with GoPro. </span></span></span>I uploaded
some of them here: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://szembiketeam.imgbb.com/">https://szembiketeam.imgbb.com/</a><br>
<span class="VIiyi" jsaction="mouseup:BR6jm" jsname="jqKxS"
lang="en"><span
jsaction="agoMJf:PFBcW;usxOmf:aWLT7;jhKsnd:P7O7bd,F8DmGf;Q4AGo:Gm7gYd,qAKMYb;uFUCPb:pvnm0e,pfE8Hb,PFBcW;f56efd:dJXsye;EnoYf:KNzws,ZJsZZ,JgVSJc;zdMJQc:cCQNKb,ZJsZZ,zchEXc;Ytrrj:JJDvdc;tNR8yc:GeFvjb;oFN6Ye:hij5Wb"
jscontroller="Zl5N8" jsmodel="SsMkhd" jsname="txFAF"
class="JLqJ4b ChMk0b" data-language-for-alternatives="en"
data-language-to-translate-into="auto" data-phrase-index="0"
jsdata="uqLsIf;_;$679"><span
jsaction="click:qtZ4nf,GFf3ac,tMZCfe;
contextmenu:Nqw7Te,QP7LD; mouseout:Nqw7Te;
mouseover:qtZ4nf,c2aHje" jsname="W297wb"></span></span></span>I
also wanted to make a much clearer system, I just didn’t have
enough time for it. Over the years, more than 10,000 pictures
have been taken, if necessary I can search for a type in it if I
have been through one.<br>
<span class="VIiyi" jsaction="mouseup:BR6jm" jsname="jqKxS"
lang="en"><span
jsaction="agoMJf:PFBcW;usxOmf:aWLT7;jhKsnd:P7O7bd,F8DmGf;Q4AGo:Gm7gYd,qAKMYb;uFUCPb:pvnm0e,pfE8Hb,PFBcW;f56efd:dJXsye;EnoYf:KNzws,ZJsZZ,JgVSJc;zdMJQc:cCQNKb,ZJsZZ,zchEXc;Ytrrj:JJDvdc;tNR8yc:GeFvjb;oFN6Ye:hij5Wb"
jscontroller="Zl5N8" jsmodel="SsMkhd" jsname="txFAF"
class="JLqJ4b ChMk0b" data-language-for-alternatives="en"
data-language-to-translate-into="auto" data-phrase-index="5"
jsdata="uqLsIf;_;$582"><span
jsaction="click:qtZ4nf,GFf3ac,tMZCfe;
contextmenu:Nqw7Te,QP7LD; mouseout:Nqw7Te;
mouseover:qtZ4nf,c2aHje" jsname="W297wb">I also created an
excel spreadsheet that summarizes pavements and tracktypes.</span></span><span
jsaction="agoMJf:PFBcW;usxOmf:aWLT7;jhKsnd:P7O7bd,F8DmGf;Q4AGo:Gm7gYd,qAKMYb;uFUCPb:pvnm0e,pfE8Hb,PFBcW;f56efd:dJXsye;EnoYf:KNzws,ZJsZZ,JgVSJc;zdMJQc:cCQNKb,ZJsZZ,zchEXc;Ytrrj:JJDvdc;tNR8yc:GeFvjb;oFN6Ye:hij5Wb"
jscontroller="Zl5N8" jsmodel="SsMkhd" jsname="txFAF"
class="JLqJ4b" data-language-for-alternatives="en"
data-language-to-translate-into="auto" data-phrase-index="6"
jsdata="uqLsIf;_;$583"><span
jsaction="click:qtZ4nf,GFf3ac,tMZCfe;
contextmenu:Nqw7Te,QP7LD; mouseout:Nqw7Te;
mouseover:qtZ4nf,c2aHje" jsname="W297wb">
</span></span><span
jsaction="agoMJf:PFBcW;usxOmf:aWLT7;jhKsnd:P7O7bd,F8DmGf;Q4AGo:Gm7gYd,qAKMYb;uFUCPb:pvnm0e,pfE8Hb,PFBcW;f56efd:dJXsye;EnoYf:KNzws,ZJsZZ,JgVSJc;zdMJQc:cCQNKb,ZJsZZ,zchEXc;Ytrrj:JJDvdc;tNR8yc:GeFvjb;oFN6Ye:hij5Wb"
jscontroller="Zl5N8" jsmodel="SsMkhd" jsname="txFAF"
class="JLqJ4b ChMk0b" data-language-for-alternatives="en"
data-language-to-translate-into="auto" data-phrase-index="7"
jsdata="uqLsIf;_;$584"><span
jsaction="click:qtZ4nf,GFf3ac,tMZCfe;
contextmenu:Nqw7Te,QP7LD; mouseout:Nqw7Te;
mouseover:qtZ4nf,c2aHje" jsname="W297wb">I will gladly
rework or even supplement if necessary.</span></span></span>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Szem</pre>
2021.01.27. 10:29 keltezéssel, Richard Smits via Tagging írta:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:421736980.99068.1611739742565@mail.yahoo.com"
type="cite"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">My mail from last week has
been in the moderation queue for being too long, so I've cut
it up in 2 parts:<br>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div id="ydpb8ccabb4yiv9098596191">
<div>
<div
class="ydpb8ccabb4yiv9098596191ydp11f0862ayahoo-style-wrap"
style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<p
class="ydpb8ccabb4yiv9098596191ydp3b2ae113MsoNormal">Thank
you all for your reactions!</p>
<p
class="ydpb8ccabb4yiv9098596191ydp3b2ae113MsoNormal">@Andy
indeed it’s much text, but I thought it was
needed. I
re-arranged much of it in the table you can now
find at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:smoothness#Making_smoothness_more_verifiable"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:smoothness#Making_smoothness_more_verifiable</a>
Hope it’s clearer what I intend to do.</p>
<p
class="ydpb8ccabb4yiv9098596191ydp3b2ae113MsoNormal">@Peter
I’m not sure I understand what you want to say.
What
do you propose to change? I had in mind to focus
on describing smoothness for
4-wheeled vehicles; this smoothness can then
still be applied to narrow ways
suitable only for 2-wheelers (if this way was
wide enough for a 4-wheeler,
which class would be able to pass it?).</p>
<p
class="ydpb8ccabb4yiv9098596191ydp3b2ae113MsoNormal">@Stefan
I hope you agree that putting the more detailed
explanations in an additional table column makes
it clearer? If necessary, even
more details could be put in a separate page,
like this one <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Berlin/Verkehrswende/smoothness"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Berlin/Verkehrswende/smoothness</a>
I don’t see why we should have an even higher
tier of smoothness (“perfect<span lang="EN-US">”,
maybe?) above that of “excellent”
(near-perfect) because even for rollers that
wouldn’t make much difference in
practice.</span></p>
<div
class="ydpb8ccabb4yiv9098596191ydp3b2ae113MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">@</span>Graeme
you’re describing the present example photo of
“impassable” that has been there
for a long time: I agree with Andy that the
present example photos are more
confusing than helpful. The one for “good” looks
less smooth than the one for
“intermediate”, and the “very_bad” one wouldn’t
be a problem for a normal car
(no need for high clearance). <span
lang="EN-US">“</span>Smoothness”
will always be somewhat subjective, like many
other tags used on OSM. However,
I think it’s also extremely useful (see here <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52650856"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
class="enhancr_card_2617306506">Finding the
'invisible' millions who are not on maps</a>
“Google and Apple maps do not differentiate
between a good road and a bad road
- but that's so important,”). My aim with the
proposed changes is to make it
less subjective, but 100% objectivity is indeed
an illusion.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="ydp19a09e1aenhancr_card_2617306506"
class="ydp19a09e1ayahoo-link-enhancr-card
ydp19a09e1aymail-preserve-class
ydp19a09e1aymail-preserve-style"
style="max-width:400px;font-family:YahooSans,
"Helvetica Neue", "Segoe
UI", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
data-url="https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52650856"
data-type="YENHANCER" data-size="MEDIUM"
contenteditable="false"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52650856"
style="text-decoration-line: none !important;
text-decoration-style: solid !important;
text-decoration-color: currentcolor
!important; color: rgb(0, 0, 0) !important;"
class="ydp19a09e1ayahoo-enhancr-cardlink"
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<table class="ydp19a09e1acard-wrapper
ydp19a09e1ayahoo-ignore-table"
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cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
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<table class="ydp19a09e1acard
ydp19a09e1ayahoo-ignore-table"
style="max-width:400px;border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(224,
228, 233);border-radius:2px"
border="0" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0" width="100%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
class="ydp19a09e1acard-primary-image-cell"
style="background-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
background-size: cover;
position: relative;
border-radius: 2px 2px 0px
0px; min-height: 175px;"
background="https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/_yLv0PqBruC8KtjlfCAKzw--~A/Zmk9ZmlsbDt3PTQwMDtoPTIwMDthcHBpZD1pZXh0cmFjdA--/https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/branded_news/46E6/production/_113205181_boy.rwanda.g.jpg.cf.jpg"
bgcolor="#000000" height="175"
valign="top"><!--[if gte mso 9]><v:rect fill="true" stroke="false" style="width:396px;height:175px;position:absolute;top:0;left:0;"><v:fill type="frame" color="#000000" src="https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/_yLv0PqBruC8KtjlfCAKzw--~A/Zmk9ZmlsbDt3PTQwMDtoPTIwMDthcHBpZD1pZXh0cmFjdA--/https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/branded_news/46E6/production/_113205181_boy.rwanda.g.jpg.cf.jpg"/></v:rect><![endif]-->
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class="ydp19a09e1acard-overlay-container-table
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cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
class="ydp19a09e1acard-overlay-cell"
style="background-color:
transparent;
border-radius: 2px 2px
0px 0px; min-height:
175px;"
background="https://s.yimg.com/cv/ae/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV21/1/enhancr_gradient-400x175.png"
bgcolor="transparent"
valign="top"><!--[if gte mso 9]><v:rect fill="true" stroke="false" style="width:396px;height:175px;position:absolute;top:-18px;left:0;"><v:fill type="pattern" color="#000000" src="https://s.yimg.com/cv/ae/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV21/1/enhancr_gradient-400x175.png"/><v:textbox inset="0,0,20px,0"><![endif]-->
<table
class="ydp19a09e1ayahoo-ignore-table"
style="width: 100%;
min-height: 175px;"
border="0"
height="175">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
class="ydp19a09e1acard-richInfo2"
style="text-align:left;padding:15px
0 0
15px;vertical-align:top"><br>
</td>
<td
class="ydp19a09e1acard-actions"
style="text-align:right;padding:15px
15px 0
0;vertical-align:top"><br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
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</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<table
class="ydp19a09e1acard-info
ydp19a09e1ayahoo-ignore-table" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255,
255); background-repeat:
repeat;
background-attachment:
scroll; background-image:
none; background-size: auto;
position: relative; z-index:
2; width: 100%; max-width:
400px; border-radius: 0px
0px 2px 2px; border-top: 1px
solid rgb(224, 228, 233);"
align="center" border="0"
cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="background-color:#ffffff;padding:16px
0 16px
12px;vertical-align:top;border-radius:0
0 0 2px"><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="ydp19a09e1acard-object-1
ydp19a09e1ayahoo-ignore-inline-image
ydp19a09e1aymail-preserve-class"
src="https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/bbc.png"
style="min-width:36px;margin-top:3px" height="36"></td>
<td
style="vertical-align:middle;padding:12px
24px 16px
12px;width:99%;font-family:YahooSans,
"Helvetica
Neue",
"Segoe UI",
Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;border-radius:0
0 2px 0">
<h2
class="ydp19a09e1acard-title"
style="font-size:
14px; line-height:
19px; margin: 0px
0px 6px;
font-family:
YahooSans,
"Helvetica
Neue",
"Segoe
UI", Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif;
color: rgb(38, 40,
42); max-width:
314px;">Finding the
'invisible' millions
who are not on maps</h2>
<p
class="ydp19a09e1acard-description"
style="font-size:
12px; line-height:
16px; margin: 0px;
color: rgb(151, 155,
167);">How open map
data is filling in
the world's missing
maps and helping
trace the spread of
disease.</p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
class="ydpb8ccabb4yiv9098596191ydp3b2ae113MsoNormal">1/2<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="ydpb8ccabb4yahoo_quoted_2141882629"
class="ydpb8ccabb4yahoo_quoted"> </div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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