<div dir="ltr"><div>Regarding StreetComplete and similar activities:</div><div>These only work if you have a large number of idling mappers.<br></div><div>In Italy we have an estimated 100-200 active mappers in the entire country.</div><div>And we have a lot of important highway attributes not taggd not tagged, like maxspeed, lanes and illumination (all important for understanding if a road is suitable for cyclists, for example)<br></div><div>Then add to that that cycle tagging needs someone who knows the different types of cycling infrastructure, which excludes 90% of the mappers. <br></div><div><br></div><div>To make the new lanes a subtype of lane and not a different type of cycleway is wrong. The old (exclusive) cycleways are (mostly) much <strike>better</strike> less bad than the new official lanes. And the local variants <a href="https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/uu8fFxtxTsXauu7kZjxxAg">we have here</a> are really dangerous.</div><div><br></div><div>I prefer a new cycleway=advisory_lane tag.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 17:11, Stefan Tauner <<a href="mailto:stefan.tauner@gmx.at">stefan.tauner@gmx.at</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 16:35:27 +0100<br>
Simon Poole <<a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch" target="_blank">simon@poole.ch</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Am 19.01.2021 um 11:08 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging:<br>
> > So we need tagging for<br>
> ><br>
> > - lane obligatory for cyclists, supposed to be respected by cars<br>
> > - lane obligatory for cyclists, not supposed to be respected by cars<br>
> > - lane optional for cyclists, not supposed to be respected by cars<br>
> > - lane optional for cyclists, supposed to be respected by cars <br>
> <br>
> I'm not sure that all of the above are things.<br>
> <br>
> In any case it is even a bit more complex than that, the corresponding <br>
> lane type here is<br>
> <br>
> mandatory for cyclists, not allowed to used by cars except if doing so <br>
> doesn't hinder or endanger cyclists (aka empty road), with the exception <br>
> that if the road isn't wide enough to allow two car queues without using <br>
> the lanes, the lane can be used (which as one can imagine leads to <br>
> massive conflicts, since it negates one advantage of cycling in the city).<br>
<br>
For that latter case we could use<br>
<br>
cycleway=lane<br>
lane=useless<br>
<br>
;)<br>
<br>
Joking aside, these lanes have been criticized for a very long time and<br>
they are actually rather harmful to cyclists' safety (dooring) thus I<br>
would actually recommend tagging those that are merely a dashed line on<br>
the street where cars are allowed to drive under some circumstances<br>
very differently to those that are at least exclusive for cyclists. As<br>
a data user I personally would not like to use a map where these are<br>
indistinguishable, or even worse the same as a separated track.<br>
I do very much support tagging them at all - they are a good indicator<br>
how well municipalities have understood their city planning.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Kind regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Stefan Tauner<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div>