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<p>Hi as well,</p>
<p>fully agree with Diego. I'd like to encourage everybody to imagine we'd say things face to face when we write. I am aware this requires more effort but I strongly feel this is needed to make sure we achieve the best results both on technical as well as personal level. Thanks for resuming exactly what I am perceiving, Diego.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />Marcos</p>
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<p>Am 09.02.2021 19:24, schrieb Diego Cruz:</p>
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<div>Hi everybody,</div>
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<div>There is no doubt that this list requires moderation in general, but especially on the part of certain users who seem to believe that their (negative) opinion is necessary on every single matter discussed here. I think I'm not only speaking for myself when I say that this list acts as a barrier to potential proposals, however reasonable they may be, both by the tone of some replies and by the fact that everyday users tend to not express their agreement to discussons, even though they technically have no problem whatsoever with the proposals. </div>
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<div>Criticism is of course necessary and welcome to improve the map, but plain opposition should be exercised moderately and with caution. I'm sure that even the silliest proposal can be improved instead of rejected. We must not forget that this is a community made up by volunteers and that no user has authority over the others to use "authoritarian" tones or to impose their vision in every single thread knowing that most of us will be silent. And this includes avoiding unpolite, blunt or sarcastic replies. By that I don't mean that you should just give every proposal "a lengthy and florid praise", as Stefan Tauner puts it, but you can voice your concerns to an idea without the need to make someone else feel useless. We need to encourage (new) users to map more, not the other way around. And since this is an international group, everybody should adapt to a tone of voice that is perceived as friendly by the majority (and not expect the rest of us to accept it as constructive, because it is not how it looks to most of us).</div>
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<div>That said, I don't expect anything to change, but please know that there are many people tired of seeing constant rejections. I want to offer my support to everybody who is trying to map objects from ogham stones to Portuguese traditional pavements to natural features in Sweden. With some moderation their efforts shouldn't be so exhausting.</div>
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<div>Best regards</div>
<div>Diego Cruz</div>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">El lun, 8 feb 2021 a las 4:09, Stefan Tauner (<<a href="mailto:stefan.tauner@gmx.at">stefan.tauner@gmx.at</a>>) escribió:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">On Sun, 7 Feb 2021 19:25:55 +0000 (UTC)<br /> Skyler Hawthorne <<a href="mailto:osm@dead10ck.com">osm@dead10ck.com</a>> wrote:<br /> <br /> > Feb 7, 2021 13:28:39 Paul Allen <<a href="mailto:pla16021@gmail.com">pla16021@gmail.com</a>>:<br /> > <br /> > > It may be a failing on my part, but I can often see when an idea has problems<br /> > > without knowing how to fix those problems. Do you really think that<br /> > > I should not call attention to the problems unless I can also suggest<br /> > > a solution? Do you think that ignoring a problem causes it to<br /> > > cease to be a problem? <br /> > <br /> > Consider someone who puts together an import plan, and presents it to everyone for feedback. Negative feedback is good; if there is a problem, it is valuable to voice it. However, consider the perspective of someone who spends a lot of time doing research and planning, who gets a reponse that is just something like "This would conflate badly in this situation", and nothing else.<br /> > <br /> > You could instead say, "Great work on the plan! I can see this being very valuable. I did consider that in this situation, the data might end up conflating badly. I don't know the data set as well as you do, but do you think there is a way to fix it?"<br /> > <br /> > In the first one, when you only say something negative with nothing else, it gives the implicit impression that you only see a problem with the plan, and by extension, you do not want it to proceed. It is a form of gatekeeping.<br /> <br /> This impression is, however, created at the receiver's end. This is one<br /> of the many cultural and personal differences that make collaboration<br /> hard. The main goal of critique is to show ways to improve something.<br /> To that end, highlighting the problematic parts is essential and<br /> constructive by itself. I personally don't want to read a lengthy and<br /> florid praise of my work if it is not truthful and adds nothing to the<br /> feedback. I find that actually appalling in many instances because of<br /> its insincerity and value the rest of the feedback as less trustworthy.<br /> However, I am aware that this view is very weird to other people and<br /> try to compensate for that when writing feedback to others as well as<br /> when being on the receiving end. I certainly don't always succeed<br /> though.<br /> <br /> TL;DR: Please don't try to enforce subjective criteria on how feedback<br /> is to be presented.<br /> <br /> That being said, giving positive feedback if it is warranted is of<br /> course important, not not only psychologically but also to make sure<br /> good parts remain on refinements and good ideas get re-applied in<br /> future situations. Simply saying thanks to somebody investing their time<br /> in good faith does not hurt anybody either.<br /> -- <br /> Kind regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Stefan Tauner<br /> <br /> _______________________________________________<br /> Tagging mailing list<br /> <a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br /> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a></blockquote>
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