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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/02/2021 15:00, Martin Machyna
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:465c0fa1-3fc0-0dc5-34c0-588d593ce069@gmail.com">
<p>I don't see how this is a relevant argument for anything.
water=river can accommodate intermittent or seasonal properties
just fine. <br>
</p>
<p>This is not a grammar exercise. Tags are just placeholders and
not some dictionary definitions.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11.2.21 5:46 , Warin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:db74c1a2-3591-5454-a064-94450e6a962e@gmail.com">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/2/21 1:40 am, Volker Schmidt
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALQ-OR7WfJdg0UW+_yWT4=SLDPG4zTxK0OXPn4OzLeahk=3Ezg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>(I suppose you mean by "redundant" that they have the
same meaning)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>From the purely practical point of view:</div>
<div>If they have the same meaning and one of them is used
twice as much as the other and, in addition, it needs only
one tag and the other one needs two, I would stick with
waterway=riverbank .</div>
<div>BTW waterway=riverbank is still today JOSM preset</div>
<div>The statement " `waterway=*` is predominantly used to
indicate the the location and topology of flowing waters,"
is in contradiction with the actual use and the wiki page<br>
</div>
<div>waterway is not only for flowing water, but also for
waterway=dam|weir|lock_gate|dock|boat_yard|water_point|fuel|milestone|sluice_gate</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>There are also intermittent waterways and seasonal waterways.
<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALQ-OR7WfJdg0UW+_yWT4=SLDPG4zTxK0OXPn4OzLeahk=3Ezg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And for intuitivity, waterway=riverbank to me seems
better than water=river <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Particularly so when the 'river'/'river bank' only has water
about every 5 to 10 years and then only for a very short
period of time, say a few days. <br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALQ-OR7WfJdg0UW+_yWT4=SLDPG4zTxK0OXPn4OzLeahk=3Ezg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If we deprecate one of the two keys, what do we win:
additional work for many mappers, because as soon as we
edit data that contains a deprecated key we get a warning,
so many that I simply ignore them regularly..</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A different thing would be an automated mass-edit,
combined with a massive information campaign to all
mappers, that they have to switch habits for a frequent
tagging situation.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I'll be sticking with waterway=riverbank, thank you. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALQ-OR7WfJdg0UW+_yWT4=SLDPG4zTxK0OXPn4OzLeahk=3Ezg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
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<div><br>
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<div><br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 10 Feb 2021 at
13:56, <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:manday@openmail.cc" moz-do-not-send="true"><manday@openmail.cc></a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<p>Hello everyone,</p>
<div> </div>
<div>this concerns the usage of `waterway=riverbank` and
`natural=water; water=river` which are currently
considered equivalent and thus redundant (taking the
wiki and observed usage as reference). I hope that we
can find a consensus on how to improve this (certanly
minor, but present) nuisance for the benefit of
simplying the canon (both for mappers & data
users).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Some of us had a short discussion of this matter on
IRC, I try to incorporate the perspectives that I
could make out into the mail.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>There appears to be no disagreement that, due to
this being redundant (opinions to the contrary have
been postulated, but I don't know of an actual case
where they are not redundant), the redundancy would
optimally be resolved by removing one or the other.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Personally, I am of the opinion that
`waterway=riverbank` would be the candidate for
removal, because it has certain shortcomings which
`water=river` does not:</div>
<div> </div>
<div> 1. `waterway=*` is predominantly used to indicate
the the location and topology of flowing waters, not
the extent, but `riverbank` does not fit that
description</div>
<div> 2. it is, by name a waterWAY, while the extents of
a river are an area</div>
<div> 3. it refers to bodies of WATER, whereas a
riverbank in the actual (geographical) sense is not
the river's water area, but includes a larger margin</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The main point that has been brought up against
deprecating `riverbank`, so I understood is, is that </div>
<div> </div>
<div> 1. People are used to tagging with `riverbank` and
habits die hard</div>
<div> 2. There might be objections in particular cases
where the tags would not be considered equivalent</div>
<div> 3. There might be conflicting tags present, e.g.
`waterway=riverbank; natural!=water` or
`waterway=riverbank; water!=river` which would also
conflict in automated substitution</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I would like to mention that I think that these
arguments apply to _any_ deprecation and, in the
current case, in both directions. They are not
arguments in favor of deprecating `water=river`, but
rather arguments against resolving the situation as a
whole by deprecating either tag.<br>
<br>
I have not received any arguments which would actually
suggest deprecating `water=river` in favor of
`waterway=riverbank`. Please mention it, if you have
any such points!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Whether or not to deprecate either tag, is probably
something people with more experience in what this
means for "collateral damage" have to comment on. I
don't have this experience, but I would like to say
that I think, that compared to other deprecation
scenarios, this seems to be fairly friendly one with
little risk of actual problems.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks for your input and hopefully we can improve
this, one way or another!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Cedric</div>
<br>
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