<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<div>Thank you for the research. <br></div><div><br></div><div>I think that defining the wild scrub based on height and density does not work. Decorative scrub (see images in my proposal) can also be defined based on height and density. Also, I would not include trees (also not if they have been stunted or planted).<br></div><div><br></div><div>If I for example compare it width grassland=*, values like are better for the tag scrub=*<br></div><div>- Mediterranean scrublands [1]<br></div><div>- Desert scrublands [1]<br></div><div>- Cultivated_scrub<br></div><div><br></div><div>This better describes the subtype of the scrub. More research has to be done into the different scrub types but you get the idea. With some images on wiki next to the subtypes should help mappers enough to map it.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Greetings,<br></div><div>Vincent</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>[1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrubland">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrubland</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>15 feb. 2021 12:01 van bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><p><span class="font" style="font-family:Verdana">I think we nearly reached a point where we
can say that we have consensus about the use of:</span><br></p><p><span class="font" style="font-family:Verdana">natural=scrub, used on a node, way or area,
area is preferred. Individual bushes, shrubs or stunted trees
which fall under this group can be tagged as nodes only with
natural=shrub or natural=tree. It is not advised to map every
individual plant in the area, same as we don't map every
individual tree in natural=wood areas. Only use it for dominant
plants where you want to emphasize their significance. To
further detail the individual mapped shrubs, bushes or trees
tagging the tag denotation=* can be used n the same way as we
use it now on trees.<br> The area that carries the main or top-level tag reflects the
dominant vegetation form. So when you have a mixture of let's
say grass, heath and scrub, what is the dominant form in % of
landcover, is the main tag to use. You are free to divide in
smaller areas if you want to provide more detail.<br> Scrub by definition grows on uncultivated land, since
cultivation of the land is not possible due to the presence and
the long growing cycle of the vegetation. The plant(s) themself
can be however cultivated or managed, like f.i. plants belonging
to this group can and are often used for landscaping and
decorative purposes in built-up areas and even as patches along
or within cultivated land like farmland.<br> It should be noted that scrub can be found on all kinds of
landuse areas including landuse that define the majority of the
area land as cultivated, like f.i. a large farmland is mapped as
a large farmland, the land is cultivated by definition because
it's farmland. Patches of scrub in the farmland can be mapped as
separate areas within (on top or as inner, as you wish). This
by definition indicates that in these cases the underlying land
is not cultivated. It is not advised to do the opposite mapping
strategy or use this mapping in on cultivated land that has
shrub like or bush like crops or fruit producing plants, like
orchards.<br> Example: if you have an orchard with some patches of "wild" or
"decorative" scrub within, map and tag these as separate areas,
don't overlap and ta them with a suitable scrub=* tag.<br> Example: a large patch of scrub contains a small farmland - the
farmland should be mapped as a separate area (inner if needed)
of the scrub land. Do not overlap so we clearly distinguish
farmland as cultivated land.<br> As such scrub by itself indicates that it appears in the wider
"wild" environment, it has no specific landuse. Scrub mapped
within larger landuse areas or boundaries can be found on any
kind of landuse and in many leisures like parks, gardens,
recreation grounds, nature_reserves etc....</span></p><p><span class="font" style="font-family:Verdana">Same as we categorise different types of
other natural vegetation or forms, like wetlands and grassland
we introduce a new tag for the same purpose: scrub=*. Values are
still to be defined. </span><br></p><p><span class="font" style="font-family:Verdana">Leaves us and Vincent to agree on how to
distinct between the "wild" or "decorative" categorising.<br> I did some searching and the best article sofar I found was
this: <a href="https://www.thespruce.com/difference-between-shrubs-and-bushes-3269793" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.thespruce.com/difference-between-shrubs-and-bushes-3269793</a>.
Together with Vincent's reference to wikipedia maybe a good
starting point could be the following values:<br> In general they are categorised in their "wild" form due to
foilage cover and height. In landscaping some catagories can be
found mostly distinguished by form, so I propose to provide
both:</span></p><p><span class="font" style="font-family:Verdana">For shrub 2-8 m in height</span><br></p><ul><li>dense foliage cover (70–100%) — <b>closed-scrub</b><br></li><li>mid-dense foliage cover (30–70%) — <b>open-scrub</b><br></li><li>very sparse foliage cover (<10%) — <b>tall open shrubland</b><br></li></ul><p>For shrubs <2 m high the following structural forms result:<br></p><ul><li>dense foliage cover (70–100%) — <b>closed-<a title="Heath (habitat)" class="" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heath_(habitat)" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">heath - should
be moved to heath=* as we have a seperate natural=heath</a></b><br></li><li>mid-dense foliage cover (30–70%) — <b>open-heath - </b><b><b><a title="Heath (habitat)" class="" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heath_(habitat)" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">should be
moved to heath=* as we have a seperate natural=heath</a></b></b><br></li><li>sparse foliage cover (10–30%) — <b>low shrubland</b><br></li><li>very sparse foliage cover (<10%) — <b>low open shrubland</b><br></li></ul><p>For decorative or shrub and bushes + stunted trees used in
landscaping:<br></p><p></p><div>- creepers or ground-covering<br></div><div> - boxwood<br></div><div> - fruitbush (both decorative or edible)<br></div><div> - fruittree (both decorative or edible)<br></div><div> - climbing<br></div><div> - landscaping shurb (decorative shrub with foil coverage to the
ground, mostly allowed to grow wild)<br></div><div> - landscaping bush (decorative shrub with foil coverage to the
ground, but mostly maintained by clipping or other methods)<br></div><div> - stunted tree<br></div><div> - landscaping small tree<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Please note that we have to make a similar action for
natural=heath with a new heath=*.<br></div><div> I hope this helps Vincent and we can soon conclude and the
proposal be rewritten.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Greetings, Bert Araali.<br></div><p></p><div class="">On 15/02/2021 12:14, Vincent van
Duijnhoven via Tagging wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>I would say not. natural=scrub should only be used on scrub
features (from wild scrublands to decorative ones). If the
majority is scrub then I would tag it as natural=scrub and tag
trees individually.<br></div><div><br></div><div>would scrub=greenery be a good tag to map the decorative
scrub?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Greetings,<br></div><div>Vincent<br></div><div><br></div><div>15 feb. 2021 09:27 van <a href="mailto:pelderson@gmail.com" class="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">pelderson@gmail.com</a>:<br></div><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;" class="tutanota_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div>Would natural=scrub include non-scrub mixed greenery, say
a combination of flowers, heath, some trees and cultivated
plants on top of grass with no apparent purpose, just
filling a space?<br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><br></div><div dir="ltr" class="" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Peter
Elderson<br></div></div><div><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><pre wrap="" class="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" class="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" class="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
<br></pre></blockquote></blockquote><div><br></div> </body>
</html>