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<p><font face="Verdana">Gully or gorge = created by flowing water or
ice, also applicable for desert</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Couloir = similar appearance but not created
by erosion but by other phenomena which only appear in
mountains.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Added by a complete novice in this matter
but understood from the rather technical description in the
proposal.</font><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19/02/2021 03:11, Kevin Kenny wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 6:29
PM Joseph Eisenberg <<a
href="mailto:joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Re: " A couloir is a narrow gully
with vertical sides (usually of rock) and a
steep slope. Around here, the usual term is
'rock chute' rather than 'couloir', but the
terms are nearly synonymous. Not every gully
is inclined enough, or has enough gradient, to
be called a couloir or rock chute. Where does
the couloir end and the talus begin? Where
there are no longer walls on either side.
Which means that there's no longer a gap to be
loaded with snow in a crosswind, so you tend
to get very different ice conditions."</div>
<div><br>
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<div>Thank you, Kevin. That is the sort of
explanation I was looking for, from the
proposal author or other proponents. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If the tag is defined to be:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"a small, narrow gully or valley between
near-vertical rock cliffs, which is steeply
inclined upward"<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That could be a definition that is specific
enough to be used.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However, I get the impression that a small,
steep stone canyon in a desert (e.g. Utah,
Arizona) would not necessarily be called a
Couloir or "rock chute" if it is never covered
in stone or ice. Is that correct? </div>
<br>
Does a couloir need to have a snow-covered
portion during the cold season? All the example
images seem to have snow filling the "chute."
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1) Is this gully a couloir: <a
href="https://www.americansouthwest.net/california/death_valley/golden-canyon-gully_l.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.americansouthwest.net/california/death_valley/golden-canyon-gully_l.html</a> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>2) What about these gullies: <a
href="https://cdn2.apstatic.com/photos/climb/105848296_medium_1557863064.jpg"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://cdn2.apstatic.com/photos/climb/105848296_medium_1557863064.jpg</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3) Or this steep slot canyon: <a
href="https://www.roadtripryan.com/go/resources/content/utah/moab/sgr-canyon/user-submitted/xryancornia-1488896313480.jpg.pagespeed.ic.VxV1KW4RTx.jpg"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.roadtripryan.com/go/resources/content/utah/moab/sgr-canyon/user-submitted/xryancornia-1488896313480.jpg.pagespeed.ic.VxV1KW4RTx.jpg</a></div>
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<div><br>
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<div>I'd call all of those rock chutes. I've only ever seen
the term 'couloir' in common use when there's ice and snow
about, but I'm not a desert hiker. Any rock chute in the
Northern US is going to be choked with snow in the winter.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd also call #3 a chimney, which is (pretty much) a rock
crack that's big enough to get your whole body into and
climb with friction holds on the two walls. (The walls need
to be nearly parallel for this to work, otherwise, it will
be off-width at some point.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="https://youtu.be/5dzsWXicn-o?t=301"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://youtu.be/5dzsWXicn-o?t=301</a>
is a couloir in summer, I suppose. It's crazily dangerous
in winter. It's mapped at <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/493353882"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/493353882</a>
just as bare_rock with cliffs on either side.<br>
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-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin</div>
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