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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 25/02/2021 21:39, Vincent van
Duijnhoven wrote:<br>
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In my opinion, all three examples given would fit under the new
proposed natural tag. <br>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
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255, 255);">
About the first one, I thought with mapping then individually
you meant mapping them as point. You are talking about mapping
each bush a polygon. it is up to the mapper to decide whether to
do such micro mapping but no matter if the they are tagged
individually as polygon or all as one, natural=shrubbery would
fit here.</div>
</blockquote>
I completely disagree Vincent, shrubbery never refers to a single
shrub or bush. Shrubbery always refers to an area in landscaping
with multiple plants. In English a single plant is either a bush or
a shrub. Maybe you should think about how you are going to translate
this in your own language, do you speak dutch ?<br>
<p>scrub = struikgewas or the less known schrobben it describes a
group, French= frotter, German = Gebüsch or Shrubben, Swahili =
kusugua .... All languages have mostly plural words.<br>
</p>
<p>shrubs / bushes = struiken it describes a group, not struik,
struiken, French=arbustes or des buissons, German = Sträucher, not
Strauch, Swahili = vichaka, not kichaka ... plural, because you
want to use it on an area consisting of multiple ones. Leave the
natural=shurb or natural=bush for the single and thus singular
used to be nodes only.<br>
</p>
<p>shrubbery = ? Don't know any Dutch word other the struikgewas for
that, same as scrub, French = arbustes, same as shrubs, no
specific word, German =Gebüsch maybe, same as scrub ? Swahili = I
don't know any word for that, we would just copy shrubbery as it
has no equivalent. All singular words to describe a group of
plants. So your semantic argument would exactly be the opposite in
other languages ? And we do want our wiki to be translated, into
languages in which many people don't even speak Englsih, the word
is just a sound, has no more meaning then a group of letters.<br>
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About the second one, it has no distinct barrier function like
for example a hedge around a building. It is clear this is meant
for decorative purposes. </div>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
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255, 255);">
About the third one, I indeed mapped that one as natural=scrub.
Technically, it has a barrier function because it forces you to
take another route but it is meant purely decorative here to
fill the space. Natural=scrub then comes closest but it is of
course not a natural, wild feature so it should be tagged with
the proposed tag.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>But when you look at the barrier you skip again an essential
"technical" definition, a barrier is LINEAR. So because it is not
linear makes it not a hedge + it has a barrier function, but it's
appearance is not linear. Barrier is described with 2 criteria:
bariier/border/boundary (=function) AND not or LINEAR, mainly in a
line, so one of the other, you could except 2 lines, but surely
NOT many lines (=appearnce !). Same like a tree row is not a
forest, no one calls a forest an area with many tree rows, no its
a row, it's linear, a hedge is linear.</p>
<p>So shrubs = a group of shrubs and bushes ............... , NOT
shrub= a group of shrubs and bushes........ sound silly doesn't it
? <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>What do you have in mind as definition criteria at this stage?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Landcover or natural, I would say both, they are both different
tagging principles which both have very good arguments to
co-exist, not to favour one to the other, not to deprecate on or
the other. One uses one them from the perspective you are mapping
from or mapping for. Landcover=shrubs should be defined also
together with natural=shrubs.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Greetings,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Bert Araali<br>
</p>
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<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Van:</b> Martin
Koppenhoefer <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com"><dieterdreist@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Verzonden:</b> donderdag 25 februari 2021 19:21<br>
<b>Aan:</b> Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org"><tagging@openstreetmap.org></a><br>
<b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC -
shrubbery</font>
<div> </div>
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<div dir="ltr">
<div class="x_gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">Am Do., 25. Feb. 2021 um
18:42 Uhr schrieb Vincent van Duijnhoven <<a
href="mailto:vvanduijnhoven@outlook.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">vvanduijnhoven@outlook.com</a>>:<br>
</div>
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0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);
padding-left:1ex">
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<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); font-size:14.6667px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline">Mapping
decorative shrubs individually like the ones on the
example images in the proposal is not doable. You
can not trace the center of most of these bushes
like you can with trees.</span></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
</div>
</blockquote>
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<div>you could map individual shrubs with a polygon. It might
make sense in cases like these where shape matters:
<a
href="https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstreetmap.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3AGreen_trees_and_shrubs_in_Shinjuku_Gyoen_National_Garden%2C_Tokyo%2C_Japan%2C_a_sunny_day_with_blue_sky.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cfe13a811888641a36c5708d8d9ba5ec7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637498741824035185%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=CXecTE06WTj1u73xQqtMHA7TMgrY%2BgF2zRkAgjLvK%2FE%3D&reserved=0"
originalsrc="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Green_trees_and_shrubs_in_Shinjuku_Gyoen_National_Garden,_Tokyo,_Japan,_a_sunny_day_with_blue_sky.jpg"
shash="SNQsgYPNiS8BCr46xwEKY9VKszACPQs2kpIsM+YId7mHboEqyvodcE/MomsNbRiBPR57qx7WyoNYSf2MY/CmYNARLUwqOvwUm19UME9sl/449GV4ocCSnfLD+qXVf6NwBGJnJirJyeHY4jCl89eUXHJbHLZmYxngb3CRqOEbavk="
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Green_trees_and_shrubs_in_Shinjuku_Gyoen_National_Garden,_Tokyo,_Japan,_a_sunny_day_with_blue_sky.jpg</a></div>
<div><br>
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<div>In this case I believe it would fit under barrier=hedge:
<a
href="https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstreetmap.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3AExample_2_landuse_bush.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cfe13a811888641a36c5708d8d9ba5ec7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637498741824045140%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=F4vKokJLQo3mPfzM9t4VJWlMr7HpFfPK8taDl%2BfdTF8%3D&reserved=0"
originalsrc="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Example_2_landuse_bush.jpg"
shash="DC8J/iXd2rEoaLJBhB/fGOFdPRWRsmyKWDonORlzEBcqY9tEos/oczq8hSDAjC22g6ACfunRDn27EWPKETIsji56KxKLWFJh9rVthTIs3cj/3tgMTs431JvvGMCQlUiO/0LlI1GMB4cM1K71ADpdM+E2LrC54oXG9Sq5pmCnTUs="
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Example_2_landuse_bush.jpg</a>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Despite what the wiki says, shrubs like these are
probably currently mapped with natural=scrub</div>
<div><a
href="https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstreetmap.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3AExample_1_landuse_bush.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cfe13a811888641a36c5708d8d9ba5ec7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637498741824045140%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=DWPpfxjemp0p8uLZwVGaxVS9Beo51yy0is8VfsmzXRM%3D&reserved=0"
originalsrc="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Example_1_landuse_bush.jpg"
shash="tcW8EXuX/hhj2JgLYTmAUzjqIlN15pMAXFQRVTwEaerV7TNXGptiy2pdCxHtWnCrtbluGD/Ff/0Lhvj8bYe3dxe+72CHuJmnkKyjjrjYBvJZ97TToEOUCxSKbnhHwbSOc/9rMZETml2pzLvCyIJS+GvVplWc1abgMIwM01AoBDo="
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Example_1_landuse_bush.jpg</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers</div>
<div>Martin<br>
</div>
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