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<div>there were indeed voices that preferred highway=residential,
but it has only disadvantages. :)</div>
<div>People expect from a residential road that they can drive on it
with their car, also these narrow alleys are typically not the
only kind of roads in these centers, and it made a lot of sense to
have a different tag in order to see the difference on the map,
avoid routers sending people into these roads etc. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I understand. But as I understand they do support other vehicle
transport like motorbikes and bicycles, modes of transport which
get more and more promoted and supported by legally enforced
access restrictions (with traffic_signs), even on wider roads. It
looks weird to me to use a highway=service tag for that purpose,
that's why here we look at the highway=service tag as being
generally used for roads that have no specific general "public"
character, a tag that has service=* values that mostly describe a
certain use or purpose, not covered by the other highway=* tags. I
know, people already pointed me out that is also not the correct
interpretation as it was intended, but maybe that has grown
historically a bit out of order due to reluctance to add a new or
attribution to the already existing highway tags ?<br>
That's why we locally tend to map these as residential roads.
Recently, we started to use the narrow=* key together with width=*
to provide data for such "alleys", We also had a group which
liked to prefer to use the access keys to tag not only legally
enforced access but also physically "enforced" access. Is that
practised the same way elsewhere in the world ?</div>
<div>It would make it easier also for routing software in my
opinion, especially for motorists and cyclists, they should look
at the physical highway keys. Anyway, my perception is that we
don't tag for a specific data use or rendering. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We have these also, and I think you find them across the world
mostly in historical cities. But how do you distinguish the alleys
which are accessible for the general public, and not clearly
signposted as such, and the ones that have a private use only
because they give access to just a single house. F.i. we have many
alleys in towns but they are not intended for public use, they
pass at the back side of building rows. They are not intended for
"public" use but to allow people to access their homes from
behind. SO we map them as highway=service. People do use them as
passages, especially pedestrians, because the main roads get to
congested and become dangerous because of misbehaviour of
motorists, like driving on the footways. We look at it though as
non-legal behaviour which we don't tag, so we don't tag them as
residential roads but as service roads. They would however
perfectly classify as alleys. As long as someone doesn't put a
barrier or a clear signpost that a road is private, we consider
all roads as publicly accessible. No publicly accessible highway
has a specific highway=service tag.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Greetings,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bert Araali<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 27/02/2021 10:58, Martin
Koppenhoefer wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1F796FBD-9ABD-49F6-8B7D-0038F4AA23F0@gmail.com">
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<br>
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<div dir="ltr">sent from a phone</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On 27 Feb 2021, at 01:19, Bert -Araali-
Van Opstal <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com"><bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Was there a specific reason to create
highway=alley? Why aren't these considered as residential
roads, just narrow ones. </div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div>there were indeed voices that preferred highway=residential,
but it has only disadvantages. :)</div>
<div>People expect from a residential road that they can drive on
it with their car, also these narrow alleys are typically not
the only kind of roads in these centers, and it made a lot of
sense to have a different tag in order to see the difference on
the map, avoid routers sending people into these roads etc. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Would you call this a residential road?</div>
<div><a
href="https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Vicolo_Baciafemmine.jpg"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Vicolo_Baciafemmine.jpg</a></div>
</blockquote>
In our perception this would be a path, a footway. Because except if
you are a stuntman you can't ride here, even not on a bicycle or a
motorbike, defintively only for pedestrains.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1F796FBD-9ABD-49F6-8B7D-0038F4AA23F0@gmail.com">
<div>or this?</div>
<div><a
href="https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Vicolo_Benci_(Montepulciano)_04.jpg"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Vicolo_Benci_(Montepulciano)_04.jpg</a></div>
<div>this</div>
</blockquote>
A skilled bicycle rider or motorist can take that single step. So
we would us residential, add narrow and width keys to it, and most
of all clearly tag it as a building passage. Height key also
useful, all physical keys but it still remains a residential road,
it's purpose is to take people from house A to House B... and it's
intended for public use.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1F796FBD-9ABD-49F6-8B7D-0038F4AA23F0@gmail.com">
<div><a
href="https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Amelia_vicolo.JPG"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Amelia_vicolo.JPG</a></div>
<div>etc <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
Thats a path, a footway due to the presence of the steps.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1F796FBD-9ABD-49F6-8B7D-0038F4AA23F0@gmail.com">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers Martin </div>
<br>
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