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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 28/02/2021 16:20, Paul Allen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAPy1dOL5fp8dU1XzmBTfqKTOcN_j01qwJ-s140bmu5Jwj78g4w@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 at 20:39, Georg <<a
href="mailto:georg2016@nurfuerspam.de" moz-do-not-send="true">georg2016@nurfuerspam.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
As fas as I saw on yodel's website, they do only offer to
pick up<br>
parcels - this is just a fraction of the services that are
commonly<br>
offered by the post/courier/logistics/whateverYouCallThem
partner shops<br>
in DE, SE etc.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As far as I know, Yodel only handles parcels. Other
companies, such as<br>
</div>
<div>Whistl <a href="https://www.whistl.co.uk/about-us"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.whistl.co.uk/about-us</a>
do letters and parcels (please</div>
<div>don't ask me to explain Whistl's corporate marketing
blurb, I can't</div>
<div>decipher it myself).<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
I understood that you "just" reject that the word "post" is
part of the<br>
key name because that word's British English meaning does
not describe<br>
that thing we want to descibe/tag, and British English is
the reference<br>
for OSM.</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But it's also true in Germany. You point out that German
mappers are</div>
<div>reluctant to call these places post offices. Would you
call one of</div>
<div>these places a post office if it was a shop within a
shop? Would you</div>
<div>call it a post office if it occupied the entire building
and sold no</div>
<div>items/services unrelated to letters, parcels, etc?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
English is not my mother tongue (just like for others
involved in thr<br>
proposal), hence, I don't know the fine differences between
"post" and<br>
"courier". <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courier"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courier</a>
explains<br>
> Couriers are distinguished from ordinary mail services
by features<br>
> such as speed, security, tracking, signature,
specialization and<br>
> individualization of express services, and swift
delivery times,<br>
> which are optional for most everyday mail services. As
a premium<br>
> service, couriers are usually more expensive than
standard mail<br>
> services,<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sometimes wikipedia over-simplifies. In the past
couriers were</div>
<div>more expensive but offered some additional features.
These days</div>
<div>some couriers compete on price rather than features.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you want an alternative term (but also more ambiguous)
there is</div>
<div>"carrier." Too ambiguous for my liking.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is also "logistics" perhaps combined with other
words. I</div>
<div>don't like that because transporting military supplies is
also</div>
<div>logistics. It's not restricted to letters/parcels. Any
sort of</div>
<div>supply transport is logistics. The company that delivers</div>
<div>beer to my local pub is a logistics company (DHL) that</div>
<div>also delivers parcels.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">So what other, less
misleading wording could we use? Logistics, Delivery<br>
services, Messengers etc.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Looking through various wikipedia articles, I found that
"mail" refers</div>
<div>to a system of physically transporting postcards, letters
and parcels.</div>
<div><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail</a>
Wikipedia considers mail to be</div>
<div> synonymous with "post." </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I haven't pondered it deeply, but (right now) "mail"
seems like a good</div>
<div>prefix. Unlike "post" there is no implicit confusion
with "post office."</div>
<div>Yes, the delivery arm of our official postal service is
called "Royal</div>
<div>Mail" but they don't have shops you can walk into
(although larger</div>
<div>towns will have a sorting office you can collect parcels
from if</div>
<div>they can't be delivered).<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
First, we did set as basic rule that we do not map for
renderers.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The rule is not to TAG for renderers. Some of us think
that the</div>
<div>rule is badly worded and we shouldn't mistag for
renderers.</div>
<div>Don't map a residential road as a motorway because you
want it</div>
<div>rendered as a thicker, different-coloured line on the
map. But you</div>
<div>do expect a residential road to render in some manner at
higher</div>
<div>resolutions on non-specialized carto. If you expect that
data</div>
<div>consumers would want to be able to look at a map to find
X</div>
<div>then it is helpful if X is rendered. If you don't expect
people to</div>
<div>look for it, why map it?<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
Last, many data consumers like <a href="http://maps.me"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">maps.me</a>,
OsmAnd, Locus,... but also OSM<br>
map website are able to search + filter for tags, so you can
find it.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm looking at the OSM map right now. There's an input
box to search for</div>
<div>names, nothing to search for post offices. I can find
post offices that</div>
<div>are named "Post Office" but there are a lot of those (the
first result I</div>
<div>got was in Nigeria). Is there a feature on the standard
map I'm</div>
<div>unaware of?</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Nominatim uses the search bow to look for values in many fields, not
just the name field.<br>
<p>The list of supported keys, where it looks for these values can
be found here: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/osm-search/Nominatim/blob/master/settings/import-extratags.style">https://github.com/osm-search/Nominatim/blob/master/settings/import-extratags.style</a>.</p>
<p>As in regard to post-offices, amenity=post_office, is not
searched as such:</p>
<p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<table class="highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"
data-tab-size="8" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="LC133" class="blob-code blob-code-inner
js-file-line"> "keys" : ["amenity"],</td>
</tr>
<tr>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table class="highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"
data-tab-size="8" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="LC134" class="blob-code blob-code-inner
js-file-line"> "values" : {</td>
</tr>
<tr>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table class="highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"
data-tab-size="8" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="LC135" class="blob-code blob-code-inner
js-file-line"> "restaurant" : "main,operator",</td>
</tr>
<tr>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table class="highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"
data-tab-size="8" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="LC136" class="blob-code blob-code-inner
js-file-line"> "fuel" : "main,operator"</td>
</tr>
<tr>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table class="highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"
data-tab-size="8" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="LC137" class="blob-code blob-code-inner
js-file-line"> }</td>
</tr>
<tr>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table class="highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"
data-tab-size="8" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="LC138" class="blob-code blob-code-inner
js-file-line">},</td>
</tr>
<tr>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table class="highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"
data-tab-size="8" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="LC139" class="blob-code blob-code-inner
js-file-line">{</td>
</tr>
<tr>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table class="highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"
data-tab-size="8" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="LC140" class="blob-code blob-code-inner
js-file-line"> "keys" : ["aeroway", "amenity", "club",
"craft", "leisure",</td>
</tr>
<tr>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table class="highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"
data-tab-size="8" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="LC141" class="blob-code blob-code-inner
js-file-line"> "office", "mountain_pass"],</td>
</tr>
<tr>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table class="highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"
data-tab-size="8" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="LC142" class="blob-code blob-code-inner
js-file-line"> "values" : {</td>
</tr>
<tr>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table class="highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"
data-tab-size="8" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="LC143" class="blob-code blob-code-inner
js-file-line"> "no" : "skip",</td>
</tr>
<tr>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table class="highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"
data-tab-size="8" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="LC144" class="blob-code blob-code-inner
js-file-line"> "" : "main"</td>
</tr>
<tr>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table class="highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"
data-tab-size="8" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="LC145" class="blob-code blob-code-inner
js-file-line"> }</td>
</tr>
<tr>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
},
<table class="highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"
data-tab-size="8" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="LC132" class="blob-code blob-code-inner
js-file-line">{</td>
</tr>
<tr>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</blockquote>
I didn't program it nor a specialist but as seen from the aboce,
Nominatim will search for the value you eneter in the search box
in:</p>
<p>the main name key and in the operator key, only when the amenity
is a restaurant or fuel.<br>
In all other cases (except amenity=no) it will look for the value
only in the name key.<br>
There is no specific way as far as I can see to look for the value
post_office in the amenity key.</p>
<p>If you enter post_office as a search value, it comes up with all
POI's where post_office is contained in the name or where mappers
have contained it in another key, like I am seeing lots of results
where addr:housename contains Post office or variant of that
value. Done this way to map for a specific data consumer,
Nominatim ?<br>
The Africans, as usually, solved it by putting the name Post
Office in the name key which is also not good practice. But that
is what users do, being creative if the proposed or approved
tagging doesn't give a feasible solution, for data processing, for
rendering or for mapping purposes, that's the mess you get.<br>
</p>
<p>But please, correct me if I am wrong.<br>
</p>
<table class="highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"
data-tab-size="8" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="LC132" class="blob-code blob-code-inner js-file-line"><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAPy1dOL5fp8dU1XzmBTfqKTOcN_j01qwJ-s140bmu5Jwj78g4w@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- <br>
</div>
<div>Paul</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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