<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Am Mi., 3. März 2021 um 11:43 Uhr schrieb Bert -Araali- Van Opstal <<a href="mailto:bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com">bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>I pointed at it in the first sentence. That was clear. I tried to
explain that because they are split across two values it is very
hard if not impossible to tag a hairdresser which offers both, as it
is in many cases, not just in Africa. It invites to invent all kinds
of constructions which are considered as not good practice.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>from my understanding, if the shop offers only/mostly hairdresser service (and selling hair products), it would be a hairdresser, if they do nails too, or other beauty related services, it would be shop=beauty, although I admit, the current definition says it is for "a non-hairdresser beauty shop" which leaves us with a gap for beauty salons which also do hairdresser work.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
<br>
Salon is a general and common term in English, and it covers exactly
all the establishments that provide "beauty" related services,
including barber_shop, specialised hairdresser etc... . Actually it
is such a common term that it is adopted in many cultures and often
used by the owners of these establishments to name then: in the UK
but also in the US there are many Nail Salons, Hair Salons, in Dutch
speaking countries "salon" is also used to name many of them. <br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>there's a difference in "nail salon", "hair salon" or "tanning salon" (also has already its tag: leisure=tanning_salon, even 2: shop=beauty with beauty=tanning, and of course a long tail with shop=solarium), which is not implied by amenity=salon. The term has other connotations as well, e.g. salon de thé, a literary salon, etc.</div><div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
I agree, many local variants exist as providing in secondary
provisions, yet the main and primary purpose of all is to provide
beauty services. If we would have a separate amenity tag it allows
to tag these in most cases on one single node, with one top level
key / value. Secondary activities can be easily added with
additional tags.<br>
I am clearly against creating all kinds of separate "local variant"
values in top-level keys. OSM and the tagging guidelines should
cover the whole globe and all cultures, especially when a well known
term like "salon" exists. Actually the term hairdresser is already a
more "localised" tag.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>yes and no. When things are sufficiently similar, we should use the same tags, but if they are significantly different, we should not try to squeeze the cubes into the round holes.<br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Yet, their are also many now tagged
shop=beauty that offer some kind of bathing as part of the service
they provide. It is the same issue. Do you go to a shop for
bathing ? Neither do I go to a shop to have a hair cut. They are not
shops in the strict sense.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>there's some overlap in our tags ;-) The shop definition says it is for places selling goods and services, so it is a shop in the strict osm sense. We do use different tags for services, some are in shop, some are in office and some are in craft, and some in amenity. car repair is a shop in OSM, car wash an amenity. I did not make this up, we have to live with it, or undertake a significant, years long effort to restructure this. We still are lacking many tags for shops and services, if we manage to sort out what we would like to have, we could start classifying new tags according to this logic, and when it becomes established, we might be able to do some larger scale retagging for existing tags, but I am not holding my breath. <br></div><div> </div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Sometimes there are specialized salons dealing with
specialized treatments such as hair salons and nail
salons. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>we have a specialized tag also for nail salons, it is
under shop=beauty beauty=nails. Btw., summarizing manicure
and pedicure, while I guess these are distinct services (who
offers pedicure might not offer manicure and vice versa) and
maybe should be reconsidered.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
True, shop=beauty, and that they are "specialised" values in a top
level key creates all kind of problems and creativity because we
can't combine them on a single node without inventing all kind of
new "specialised" top-level values.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>for practical purposes which go beyond statistics or drawing a generic icon, we actually do need specialised descriptions, because if you want to get a haircut you won't be satisfied with finding a place that does nails.<br></div><div> </div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
Change is difficult, I know, and I would not deprecate
shop=hairdresser or shop=beauty, but redefine them as shops where
you buy hairdresser accessories or beauty products and accessories.
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>help. Please not. Never do this. It would break everything. If you want to restructure the system, I would strongly advise to use new tags. When you redefine existing tags for something different, it leads to complete chaos. Seriously.</div><div><br></div><div>If you are serious, set up a proposal and we can discuss the implications in more detail.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,<br></div><div>Martin<br></div></div></div>