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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/03/2021 12:36, Martin
Koppenhoefer wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Am Mi., 3. März 2021 um
00:15 Uhr schrieb Bert -Araali- Van Opstal <<a
href="mailto:bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
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<p><font face="Verdana">This is an excellent opportunity
to reconsider the shop=hairdresser and shop=beauty.
Both hairdresser and beauty refer more to an amenity
key (cultural and social) or a craft key (service /
skilled work). <br>
A hairdresser or a beauty shop is in most cases not a
place where I go to buy something, but where I go to
get a service from a craftsmen and/or go for social
interaction.</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">My preference would go to amenity
= salon.<br>
</font>A salon is an establishment offering cosmetic
treatments for men and women. Salon is also called
beauty parlour or beauty salon. Beauty salons offer many
treatments including, hair treatments, skin treatments,
facial aesthetics, aromatherapy, foot care and nail
manicures. Actually, in most African and Asian
countries, most "hairdressers" offer a mix of these
services and might even offer some food and bar like
services. </p>
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<div>We do have a tag for beauty salons: <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dbeauty"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dbeauty</a></div>
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I pointed at it in the first sentence. That was clear. I tried to
explain that because they are split across two values it is very
hard if not impossible to tag a hairdresser which offers both, as it
is in many cases, not just in Africa. It invites to invent all kinds
of constructions which are considered as not good practice.<br>
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<div>Not sure this applies to the kind of salons you are
describing, which also operate a bar and provide pool
tables. Maybe you should propose a new tag for this kind of
place, if it can be defined in a way that it is
significantly different from what we have. These do not
exist around here, and I am hesitant to see them in the same
category as a barber shop, where you effectively would go
for hair cutting and shaving, but not pass your leisure
time. shop=hairdresser works for me, if it doesn't for your
area, rather than deprecating the established tag, see how
you can deal with your situation.<br>
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Salon is a general and common term in English, and it covers exactly
all the establishments that provide "beauty" related services,
including barber_shop, specialised hairdresser etc... . Actually it
is such a common term that it is adopted in many cultures and often
used by the owners of these establishments to name then: in the UK
but also in the US there are many Nail Salons, Hair Salons, in Dutch
speaking countries "salon" is also used to name many of them. <br>
I agree, many local variants exist as providing in secondary
provisions, yet the main and primary purpose of all is to provide
beauty services. If we would have a separate amenity tag it allows
to tag these in most cases on one single node, with one top level
key / value. Secondary activities can be easily added with
additional tags.<br>
I am clearly against creating all kinds of separate "local variant"
values in top-level keys. OSM and the tagging guidelines should
cover the whole globe and all cultures, especially when a well known
term like "salon" exists. Actually the term hairdresser is already a
more "localised" tag.<br>
Adding salon= hairdresser / barber_shop / and other "local" terms
with good definitions (including the description of their social /
cultural significance) only would support this.<br>
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<div>In some areas there may also be bathing facilities which
offer body care treatments by the way.<br>
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True, and they are amenities. Yet, their are also many now tagged
shop=beauty that offer some kind of bathing as part of the service
they provide. It is the same issue. Do you go to a shop for
bathing ? Neither do I go to a shop to have a hair cut. They are not
shops in the strict sense.<br>
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<p>Sometimes there are specialized salons dealing with
specialized treatments such as hair salons and nail
salons. </p>
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<div>we have a specialized tag also for nail salons, it is
under shop=beauty beauty=nails. Btw., summarizing manicure
and pedicure, while I guess these are distinct services (who
offers pedicure might not offer manicure and vice versa) and
maybe should be reconsidered.<br>
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True, shop=beauty, and that they are "specialised" values in a top
level key creates all kind of problems and creativity because we
can't combine them on a single node without inventing all kind of
new "specialised" top-level values.<br>
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<div>While your suggestion to rethink this completely with
amenity=salon might work, we should acknowledge that there is
already established tagging, so my suggestion would rather be
looking into how to integrate distinct similar facilities or
better specify what it is, within the current system.</div>
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Change is difficult, I know, and I would not deprecate
shop=hairdresser or shop=beauty, but redefine them as shops where
you buy hairdresser accessories or beauty products and accessories.
Indicate that for the places where you look for hair and other
beauty related services, as primary activity, one should use
amenity=salon and salon=*.<br>
<p>It repurposes them, and for sure there will be a transition
period and ambiguity, but, without doing any detailed research, it
will take away bad practices and ambiguity because the current
top-level tag is too specialised.</p>
<p>Don't want to oppose your opinion here Martin, it has some good
arguments, just wanted to provide some more context because it
seemed what I proposed wasn't very clear, it is not an attempt to
solve or incorporate a local variant into an existing one, in the
contrary it is an idea offered to do exactly the opposite.<br>
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<p>Greetings,</p>
<p>Bert Araali<br>
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