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<p>I am struggling with mixed feelings of what is happening here. <br>
</p>
<p>Is it sad, yes, to how the gatekeepers mentality or the search
for conformation of popularity or need to control and domination
is used to increase cultural differences, as a tool to acknowledge
or grow political interests or differences.</p>
<p>Is it funny, yes, how people are using this forum, the wiki,
voting in interests groups in favour or against proposals or
practices. Calling for moderation. Calling for action by the DWG.
etc... and not seeing by doing so that they are acting against the
basic values that OSM is based upon, practising and acting against
what they are trying to promote or stand for. <br>
Free and open, a community effort, with none or minimal governance
where we value and respect each other. <br>
There is a need in change how this group acts, how it drives
people apart instead of bringing them together, make guidelines
for the common good. Get things done by working together, be open
and understanding, RESPECT. Because this group, and also the wiki,
what is happening here AND in the wiki, makes it irrelevant. <br>
Calling for governance makes it irrelevant, shows that what it has
become a playing field for competing, not contributing to
coherence and representative for the broader community.</p>
<p>Talk to each other, listen to each others motivations, why did
someone or a group "violate" in your opinion the common good,
unification, freedom and openness, understand and communicate, and
then come up with a joint "incident" description, how you came to
understand each other, respect each other and advise to the
community by example, how you resolved it, through respect,
acknowledgement of misperceptions, misconduct, understanding each
others frustrations, so this forum and this wiki becomes again a
guide, an open and friendly space for all, for the community.<br>
<br>
I, and many who contacted me privately about this particular
"incident", what was noticed on the wiki and how it was handled in
this group, many of us, would appreciate both parties to resolve
their issues privately and then report back describing "the
issue", then come back to the community, with a JOINT description
about this "incident" or "conflict" and how you JOINTLY found a
compromise and have a constructive advise to the community.<br>
<br>
Thank you, wish you all lots of courage and creativity, UNITE,
don't DIVIDE.</p>
<p>Bert Araali<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/03/2021 17:39, 80hnhtv4agou---
via Tagging wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:1615041562.790771150@f247.i.mail.ru">
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<div>Saturday, March 6, 2021 8:30 AM -06:00 from Tomas Straupis
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tomasstraupis@gmail.com"><tomasstraupis@gmail.com></a>:</div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial,
Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial; display: inline !important; float: none;"> I will
only add that to me the saddest thing is not one tag or the</span><br
style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial, Tahoma,
Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial;">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial,
Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial; display: inline !important; float: none;">other but
the lack of ANY<strong> governance</strong> whatsoever which
allows us -</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);
font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size:
15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style:
initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial,
Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial; display: inline !important; float: none;">OpenStreetMap
- to get to such a bad situation in the first place.</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="color:#0c64c0;"><span style="font-family:
Arial, Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial; float: none; display: inline !important;">So then
lets form an editorial board that would take this away
from the DWG and put it in the hands of</span></span></div>
<div><span style="color:#0c64c0;"><span style="font-family:
Arial, Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial; float: none; display: inline !important;">a
voting body.</span></span></div>
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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1615041562.790771150@f247.i.mail.ru">
<div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left:1px solid #0857A6; margin:10px;
padding:0 0 0 10px;">Saturday, March 6, 2021 8:30 AM -06:00
from Tomas Straupis <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tomasstraupis@gmail.com"><tomasstraupis@gmail.com></a>:<br>
<div id="">
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<div id="style_16150410240768542413_BODY">2021-03-06,
št, 16:11 Andy Townsend rašė:
<div class="mail-quote-collapse">> Firstly at <a
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2021-March/060317.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2021-March/060317.html</a>
,<br>
> Tomas makes two statements which he says are a
corollary of what I've said<br>
> but which really aren't. I don't agree with
those statements and I doubt anyone<br>
> else on the DWG would either. Maybe he was
trying to make a joke, but if<br>
> so it (a) isn't funny and (b) isn't helpful.</div>
<br>
Sorry, Andy, that was I joke, but until we get into
the ministry of<br>
silly tags... :-) I'm not going to do the things Brian
did because I<br>
think that is wrong in general. And I do understand
that Andy (or DWG)<br>
cannot solve this problem as it's roots are beyond
tags.<br>
<br>
I guess Christoph has made a very good point about
all this "saga"<br>
further decreasing the quality of OSM data.
Unfortunately majority<br>
will never understand it.<br>
<br>
I will only add that to me the saddest thing is not
one tag or the<br>
other but the lack of ANY governance whatsoever which
allows us -<br>
OpenStreetMap - to get to such a bad situation in the
first place.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Tomas<br>
<br>
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moz-do-not-send="true">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
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href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a></div>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
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