<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<div class="moz-text-html" lang="x-unicode">
<p><br>
</p>
On 4/8/21 1:08 PM, Zeke Farwell wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAH-nfWPzc97PoFtQZNbHgeQJoLo7-8Q4xjL5d+dc2WxV9Z55Tg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">On 8 Apr 2021, at 01:44, Kevin Broderick <<a
href="mailto:ktb@kevinbroderick.com" target="_blank">ktb@kevinbroderick.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>The only other caveat I'd bring up is with the "not
a track" bullet for "A trail, path, or other way that
is not intended for motor vehicles"; I don't know if
"not used for motor vehicles by the public" or
something similar might be a little better.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 3:55 AM Martin Koppenhoefer <<a
href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>>
wrote: <br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>maybe we could add “that is not OR NO MORE intended
for motor vehicles”. Some tracks are actually old
roads which have been replaced by a newer road. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The bullet point in question is an example of a
situation where highway=track is not appropriate:<br>
<ul>
<li> A trail, path, or other way that is not intended
for motor vehicles. See highway=path and
highway=pedestrian</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div>I think I will revise it to this:</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li> A trail or path that is not intended for motor
vehicles. See highway=path, footway, cycleway, and
bridleway<br>
</li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I don't think that works. There are many trails, just wide enough
for a single track track vehicle that are open to motorcycles. I
don't think motor vehicle access belongs in the distinction
between path and track. We have access tags for that.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAH-nfWPzc97PoFtQZNbHgeQJoLo7-8Q4xjL5d+dc2WxV9Z55Tg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>The goal of this bullet point is to state that if a way
can more accurately be tagged as path, footway, cycleway,
or bridleway then one of those should be used instead. To
me it seems that to qualify as highway=track, a way should
get some amount of usage by four wheeled motor vehicles.
This may be very rare in some cases with the majority of
use being other transport types. However, if the way is
really not intended for motor vehicles at all, then it
seems to me that highway=track isn't appropriate. Of
course workers might drive a four wheeled motor vehicle on
a path, footway, cycleway, or bridleway (if wide enough)
to do maintenance or in an emergency, so it's hard to draw
an exact line between ways used by motor vehicles and ways
that are not. Still I think it is fair to say that a
highway=track is generally intended for some motor
vehicles, while a path is generally not.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I think if a way was created for 2 track vehicle, and could still
be driven with a 2 track vehicle it's a track. I'm not referring
to open terrain where a 2 track vehicle could just drive anywhere
(open desert or farmland). If there was some construction,
maintenance, or useage at some time, and it is still wide enough
for a 2 track vehicle it's a track.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAH-nfWPzc97PoFtQZNbHgeQJoLo7-8Q4xjL5d+dc2WxV9Z55Tg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Another option would be to swap the condition of
"intent" for a condition of "width":</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>A trail or path that is not wide enough for a
typical four wheeled motor vehicle. See highway=path,
footway, cycleway, and bridleway</li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I like that much better. <br>
</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAH-nfWPzc97PoFtQZNbHgeQJoLo7-8Q4xjL5d+dc2WxV9Z55Tg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>I had something similar to this in a previous draft
and received feedback that defining a minimum width was
a bad idea. Four wheeled motor vehicles vary in width
(mini tractors to dump trucks) so how can we say what is
typical? I feel this works fine and we can say it is up
to local mappers to decide what they consider a common
or typical vehicle width in their region.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>