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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 28/03/2021 15:41, François Lacombe
wrote:<br>
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<div>Hi Bert,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I see major issues with this reasoning, I explain why
below.<br>
</div>
<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le sam. 27 mars 2021
à 17:16, Bert -Araali- Van Opstal <<a
href="mailto:bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com</a>>
a écrit :<br>
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<p><font face="Verdana">I don't see any added value for
OSM to make a new top-level value for process tanks.
<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">As an engineer, I can say that any
process tank, depending on the stage in the process,
is a storage tank. Even if you would take into
consideration, that due to what appliances it has or
how it is build, doesn't give you a clue of whether it
is used as a process tank or just a storage tank.<br>
</font></p>
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<div>The main difference between storage and process tanks is
that you get the same output than input in the first and not
for the last.</div>
<div>At least any change in the contained substance is not
expected in storage tanks despite it could happen in some
circumstances which often should be avoided.<br>
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I can't disagree more François. Many storage tanks need a "process"
to keep it's contents "unchanged". Some examples:<br>
A liquid with suspension of some solids needs to be stirred during
storage to maintain the suspension. If not you get flocculation,
clogging ,sedimentation. Other fluids might need heating to
maintain the stored substance in it's desired state, heating being a
"process".<br>
Fuel tanks might have nitrogen blanketing to prevent explosive
evaporation damps or oxidisation by air. Still, they remain storage
tanks but removing the "conservation processes" will result of the
input not being the same as the output (not in chemical and not in
physical characteristics).<br>
Pumped ground water with high iron content will oxidise when exposed
to air, changing it's odour, causing discolouring and even
flocculation. When it is "stored" without some kind of preservation
or conservation measures in place, what went in will not be the same
of what came out. Same with bacterial growth in water storage
tanks. All these preservation or conservation measures are
processing which many time takes place in the storage tanks. Hard
to distinguish or classify them as "process" tanks. <br>
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<p><font face="Verdana"> Many get disused for, primarily
processing, others don't. Especially in water sewage
faculties it is often difficult, even for me as an
engineer, if it is still in use as a process tank,
intended to be a process tank (because some storage
tanks we just add f.i. an aerator and it becomes a
process tank ?). Now you expect that this tag is
going to solve this problem, an issue where even
experts disagree many times.<br>
</font></p>
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<div>Tags are used to state objective differences seen on
ground. A new tag will not introduce new differences on
ground but bring ability to mappers to describe precisely
what they seen.</div>
<div>Then the point is not to find this difference every time
but to be able to describe it even once in the world.</div>
<div>If a property lacks of consensus, OSM community should
make a decision like "An aerator is a process tank".<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Secondly, sewage processing facilities are often public
service, then sometimes open to visit, often with public
information available nearby or online. Then be able to
transpose such public knowledge on OSM should be considered
as a common practice whatever complexity is.<br>
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This I agree, yet adding a process=* tag to any
man_made=storage_tank can facilitate this. Without expecting a
mapper to be a chemist or process engineer.<br>
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<p><font face="Verdana"> A tank is just a tank, add some
attributes to it if you are sure and have seen proven
that it is used for more then just storage, then add
attributes to it like in a process=* tag. </font></p>
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<div>We certainly agree on this one.</div>
<div>One problem: none of us was there when it came to define
man_made=storage_tank (I would certainly had chosen another
one for this) and now storage_tank is unlikely to be changed
due to its usage.<br>
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<div><br>
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<div>Right now one of the main priority is to be consistent
with existing features.<br>
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I am not saying we should change storage_tank. The opposite, there
is nothing wrong with using the storage_tank value as most, if not
all, process tanks can be considered as storage tanks at some point
in time.
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<p><font face="Verdana"> Essentially nothing is wrong to
keep it under other top level tags, being it
water=reservoir, basin or pond or
man_made=storage_tank. They all can become a process
tank somewhere in the processing of the fluid, they
all are just storage tanks in some stage of the
processing. Keep it simple.<br>
</font></p>
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<div>I don't understand what you mean.</div>
<div>Will someday a drinking water covered storage tank be
part of any processing? I guess no.</div>
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<p>What I explained above, as well as a storage_tanl can be used for
processing at some point in time the same applies to reservoirs
and basins. Adding an attribute key process=* could be used with
all of them in a consistently.</p>
<p>Greetings,</p>
<p>Bert Araali.<br>
</p>
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