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<p>I am getting a bit lost here, all the examples mentioned are
correctly reflected in the proposal and in the current wiki page.<br>
</p>
<p>So if I understood the question correctly:<br>
Should it be mandatory for military=barracks to be tagged also
with landuse=military.</p>
<p>military=barracks should designate an area where military
personnel live and sleep. Does this implicate that this is by
definition land used for military purposes. In my option not
(having served in NATO in Germany, where many barracks are in the
regular residential areas, either single or grouped in a more
designated suburb, neighbourhood or other. So the landuse may
differ, it can be landuse=military as being part of a separate
military base (yes sometimes called something barracks as is
described in the wiki), but it can also be landuse=residential, as
in some cases the land is not owned, even the buildings are not
owned by the military or used for other miltary purposes like a
shooting range or training facilities. So one should be usable
detached from the other one, not reflecting ownership but
effective landuse, landuse which is clearly distinguishable from
other military use has landuse=residential (or other values as you
like), if part of a larger base with other military areas and use,
then it will be located in landuse=military. <br>
<br>
Sleeping and living doesn't make the landuse different, is similar
to other groups or communities within the population, but
identical to landuse=residential, the soldiers reside their. Same
as we have students staying in hostels outside an educational
campus, rangers outside a park etc...</p>
<p>One could discuss if this asks for a boundary like interpretation
or not, in some cases we do, as we have while village in Africa
defined as "Special purpose" or "Military" administrative zones.
We do map those boundaries, but the land and use inside the
boundaries is mapped and tagged with different landuse and/or
military areas, as military=barracks. Military=barracks defines a
separate zone, one or multiple buildings, the landuse tag should
be separate but not mandatory and rendered as such independently.
We tag independent from rendering, the renderers should adopt to
the tagging scheme.</p>
<p>Greetings,</p>
<p>Bert Araali<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 14/04/2021 17:43, Peter Neale via
Tagging wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1817226462.3173555.1618411402696@mail.yahoo.com">
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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">@Brian: Thank you for
adding to my understanding of US English.</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">(<span>"two nations divided
by a common language"!)</span></div>
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<div>Regards,</div>
<div dir="ltr">Peter</div>
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<div> On Wednesday, 14 April 2021, 15:28:55 BST, Brian M.
Sperlongano <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zelonewolf@gmail.com"><zelonewolf@gmail.com></a> wrote: </div>
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<div>It is also common in US English to refer to an army
base as "barracks". So it can refer to either the
base or the actual buildings where soldiers sleep. </div>
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<div class="ydpd20c0cd2yiv7053831370gmail_attr"
dir="ltr">On Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 10:26 AM Peter
Neale via Tagging <<a shape="rect"
href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
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solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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<div style="font-family:times new roman, new
york, times, serif;font-size:16px;">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Yes, it is very common , in
British English, to refer to an "army
base" (US English) as a "Barracks".</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">An individual building, used
for the accommodation of troops, would be
called a "barrack block".</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">An area of land, including
one, or more, barrack blocks, a parade
square, garages, stores buildings, sports
field, etc. would be "the barracks" e.g
Imphal Barracks in York.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">A single "barracks" - sorry,
but it is considered singular, even though
it looks like a plural - can house a unit
(a company, squadron, workshop, regiment,
battalion... don't start asking about all
the different terms for essentially the
same size of unit), or the headquarters of
a larger formation (division, brigade,
etc.)</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">So, IMHO in OSM you can map a
single building (barrack block) as
"military=barracks". If you map several
of these that stand within a common area,
that area SHOULD be "landuse=military". I
am a little hesitant about adding the
landuse to a single, isolated building,
but that would be logical - perhaps
include a small strip of land around it,
if that is justified? I DO NOT think that
we should stack "landuse=military", one
inside another by insisting that every
"military=barracks" MUST also have a
"landuse=military" tag, even if it stands
in an area already tagged as
"landuse=military".</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:new times,
serif;font-size:16px;">
<div>Regards,</div>
<div dir="ltr">Peter</div>
<div dir="ltr">(Retired, after 29 years'
service in the British Army)</div>
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<div> On Wednesday, 14 April 2021, 13:27:25
BST, Martin Koppenhoefer <<a
shape="rect"
href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>>
wrote: </div>
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<div dir="ltr">sent from a phone</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On 14 Apr
2021, at 02:24, Graeme Fitzpatrick
<<a shape="rect"
href="mailto:graemefitz1@gmail.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">graemefitz1@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Since it has been
redefined as "buildings where
military personnel live and
sleep", it should now only be used
on individual, or a group of,
buildings, almost invariably found
inside a base area. With the
current mandatory combination with
landuse=military, it means that
you have landuse=military +
military=barracks nested inside an
area of landuse=military +
military=base, which is a bit
awkward. </div>
</blockquote>
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<div>it get’s weirder when the name of
the base(?) is then Foo Barracks,
e.g. the US Kelley Barracks in
Stuttgart:</div>
<div><a shape="rect"
href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelley_Barracks"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
fg_scanned="1"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelley_Barracks</a></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>These are not just "buildings
where military personnel live and
sleep" but include the headquarters
of US Africom.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>maybe “barracks” is also used for
a kind of base in some cases?</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Not sure about English, but in
German usage the term “Kaserne”
(barracks), while literally
referring to the sleeping quarters,
is used as a generic term for a
military base “at home” or maybe at
“friends”.</div>
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<div>Cheers Martin </div>
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