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<div>Yes, I changed it recently on Wiki to document actual use.<br></div><div><br></div><div>See <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Map_Features:surface&diff=2123632&oldid=2121665">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Map_Features:surface&diff=2123632&oldid=2121665</a><br></div><div><div>and<br></div><div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:surface%3Dgravel&action=history">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:surface%3Dgravel&action=history</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>More improvements likely would be useful,<br></div></div><div>it seems to me that dirt and earth descriptions at <br></div><div><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features:surface">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features:surface</a><br></div><div>-- that is displayed at <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface</a> <br></div><div>are also mismatching actual use).<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Apr 17, 2021, 19:51 by bradhaack@fastmail.com:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div>I'm also one of those who has tagged many gravel roads as gravel. <br></div><div> The description on the wiki there now seems good to me:<br></div><div> "This tag has very large meaning range. Used for cases ranging from
huge gravel pieces like track ballast used as surface, through small
pieces of gravel to compacted surface."<br></div><div> I didn't see that it was changed recently?<br></div><div> It sounds like the tag is used consistently with the way most people
think of a gravel road. It sounds like this is true not just in my
area, but worldwide? <br></div><div> <br></div><div> <br></div><div> <br></div><div class="">On 4/16/21 1:44 AM, Mateusz Konieczny
via Tagging wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>The problem is that basically all surface=gravel mismatched
supposed definition.<br></div><div><br></div><div>So pretending that surface=gravel is anything else except
"any kind of gravel, small<br></div><div>or large" would be pointless.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I would rather invent new values less likely to be
misinterpreted<br></div><div><br></div><div>Something like<br></div><div>surface=track_ballast (?) / surface=huge_gravel (?) /
surface=ballast / surface=rubble (???)<br></div><div>for <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>And surface=small_gravel or something else for <br></div><div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Gravel_road,_car_in_viewfield_for_scale.jpg">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Gravel_road,_car_in_viewfield_for_scale.jpg</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>And rersurvey, with retagging to more precise values
(surface=gravel is still useful, <br></div><div>as surface=unpaved may be also for example surface=sand)<br></div><div><br></div><div>Apr 16, 2021, 08:41 by <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="" href="mailto:voschix@gmail.com">voschix@gmail.com</a>:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="auto"><div>I acknowledge there is a problem. I started out putting
"gravel" on many maintained unpaved roads, only to look up
the wiki some years later. I know use "fine_gravel" (taginfo
170k uses), which broadly corrisponds to the "gravel" of
"gravel bikes". <br></div><div dir="auto">So, yes, most of my "gravel" roads are really
"fine_gravel", but I have no idea how widespread it is, and
also how much it depends of the mapper's mother tongue.<br></div><div dir="auto">I would not redefine the value "gravel",
rather put a warning on the page, pointing out that we have
this wide spread confusion, and invite mappers to consider
"fine_gravel".<br></div></div><div><br></div><div class=""><div class="" dir="ltr">Il Gio 15 Apr 2021, 10:00 Mateusz
Konieczny via Tagging <<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>>
ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex" class=""><div><div>For long time this tag was described at Key:surface
page as <br></div><div>"Broken/crushed rock with sharp edges, known as
ballast on railways. Usually loosely arranged.<br></div><div>Typical size for road and surface construction range
between 4 and 8 cm".<br></div><div><br></div><div>( <a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface</a> )<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>But it turns out that surface=gravel is primarily
used for roads where far smaller <br></div><div>pieces of rocks are used.<br></div><div><br></div><div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div><br></div><div>It is result of <br></div><div>- "gravel roads" term is often used in many countries
for something where far smaller pieces<br></div><div> of rock are used, some of such roads would qualify
for surface=compacted.<br></div><div> See <a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Gravelsign2.jpg">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Gravelsign2.jpg</a><br></div><div>- "gravel" and equivalent terms in other languages is
often used by people to refer to pieces<br></div><div> of rock far smaller than 4cm<br></div><div>- there was not good tag for roads with surface of
small loose gravel <br></div><div> (surface=fine_gravel at <a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface</a> has<br></div><div> "A multilayer pavement with a stone or gravel basis
and a topmost surface of firm, granular grit,<br></div><div> basalt or quartz," what anyway excluded cases of
some gravel thrown on earth/mud/drt )<br></div><div>- surfaces matching old Wiki definitions are existing
but really rare <br></div><div> <a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div><br></div><div>How one may know that Wiki definition mismatches
actual use?<br></div><div><br></div><div>assumption:<br></div><div>Surfacing roads/paths/etc with track ballast-sized
pieces of gravel is extremely rare<br></div><div>(though it happens)<br></div><div><br></div><div>but in actual use surface=gravel is extremely common,
far more common that<br></div><div>old Wiki definition.<br></div><div><br></div><div>So actual use clearly mismatches wiki definition.<br></div><div>In addition, many people using surface=gravel were
unaware of this definition and unaware<br></div><div>that such surfaces described in Wiki actually exist!<br></div><div><br></div><div>See <a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2021-March/014445.html">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2021-March/014445.html</a><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div><br></div><div>So:<br></div><div><br></div><div>It turns out that surface=gravel is for anything from
"basically compacted" to<br></div><div>"basically track ballast".<br></div><div><br></div><div>I recommend checking <a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface</a> in your language<br></div><div>and updating definition to match actual tag use.<br></div><div><br></div><div>It would be nice to find some good tagging for
surfaces like<br></div><div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>surface=track_ballast? surface=huge_gravel?
surface=ballast?<br></div><div><br></div><div>It would be also nice to find some more specific
values for <br></div><div>cases of small gravel thrown on mud/dirt/grass - as
surface=gravel<br></div><div>turns out to be very unspecific ability to tag this
in detail would be great<br></div><div>(useful especially for cyclists)<br></div><div><br></div><div>surface=small_gravel? Something else?<br></div><div><br></div><div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div><br></div><div>PS AAAARAGAGAHHA. Tag used over 1.5 million times had
actual use and OSM Wiki<br></div><div>definition completely and utterly mismatched.<br></div><div><br></div><div>And we need new tags and resurvey of 1 500 000
elements to have useful information about surface.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Right now surface=gravel may be both <br></div><div><a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg</a><br></div><div>and<br></div><div><a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Gravelsign2.jpg">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Gravelsign2.jpg</a><br></div><div>that for many purposes are worth distinguishing.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Arghhh.<br></div></div><div>_______________________________________________<br></div><div>Tagging mailing list<br></div><div><a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br></div><div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><pre class="" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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