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<p><font face="Verdana">Why didn't you say that before ? I worked in
the Netherlands and other European countries as Project and
construction manager for large pipeline projects and made
extensive use of the Grondbank (GNB), both to deposit excess
soils, contaminated soils (with other building materials),
gravel from roads etc... . The Grondbank is an important
operation, some operated by the gemeenten, havenautoriteiten and
conglomerates of different privately owned companies. <br>
The same exists in other European countries (Belgium also called
Grondbanken <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.grondbank.be/">https://www.grondbank.be/</a>,
and I used similar practices in Germany and France) and the UK (<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="www.claire.co.uk">www.claire.co.uk</a>
and <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/716510/pb13298-code-of-practice-090910.pdf">https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/716510/pb13298-code-of-practice-090910.pdf</a>).
Like f.i. in France the TERRASS db (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.brgm.fr/fr/site-web/terrass">https://www.brgm.fr/fr/site-web/terrass</a>)
serves that purpose, all to comply with the European Waste
guidelines. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">The principle is based on the same concept
though: re-use on site, if not direct transport for re-use on
other sites, storage or treatment in hubs, or transfer to
clusters. All based on reuse and recycling of spoils of
building and public work sites, minimise transport (cost and CO2
emissions), support to have a circular economy. Important in
these concepts is that all spoils are considered as waste and
have to be removed to landfills or these "Grondbanken". The
clusters also have fixed and mobile recycling provisions for the
sieving, crushing and washing of soils, aggregates (mostly
referred to as minerals) and in Nederland recently they started
to do the same for artificial grass. You might not have seen
them on the storage space you refer to as they are many times
mobile and used to process smaller batches like seen in your
example.</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">In that case it seems a good idea to me to
incorporate appropriate tagging in line with the WikiProject
"Circular Economy" (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_CircularEconomy">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_CircularEconomy</a>)
and Waste recycling theme (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Waste_Processing">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Waste_Processing</a>).<br>
This would result in the area being tagged as amenity=recycling
with recycling_type=storageyard (I liked Michaels response for
semantics, this is a new value) or maybe
recycling_type=BPW_exchange (BPW = Building and Public Works in
French BPT = </font><font face="Verdana"><span class="ILfuVd"><span
class="hgKElc">bâtiment et travaux publics) </span></span>for
and new material (new tags conform with existing use) as
recycling:soil=yes, recycling:aggregate=yes or
recycling:minerals=yes. The dutch version has a wikidata entry:
Q2189151 and wikipedia page: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grondbank">https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grondbank</a>.<br>
You could consider amenity=waste_transfer_station (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dwaste_transfer_station">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dwaste_transfer_station</a>)
instead of a new value for the recycling_type, however I like it
less as it's macro and limits mapping freedoms when you want to
provide more details.</font><tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"
style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi
style="white-space:nowrap"></bdi><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dwaste_transfer_station"
title="Tag:amenity=waste transfer station"><bdi></bdi></a></tt></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">I would propose to include it with operator
(Gemeente) and network (Grondbank ...).<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">In line with existing tagging schemes, these
are amenities and can be used with any landuse tag, as in my
previous suggestions. Still for the fans of detail mapping to be
used in combination with man_made tags like the bunker_silo.<br>
Don't use landuse=depot please, it will cause ambiguity for two
completely different facilities with completely different scope
and purpose.</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Greetings,</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Bert Araali</font><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19/05/2021 00:06, Peter Elderson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAKf=P+sugYpmwPKWKjMmJAC5h_+9BReiYh_A78LxE0MiM5V5zg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Ok thanks for the input and ideas.
<div>The areas in my region are part of the "grondbank",
which is probably best translated as 'soil exchange'. It's not
comparable to a pile or pit of salt next to a road, in case
it's needed for the road. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I guess landuse=industrial best describes the exchange
activities, even though no industries or companies are
involved, nothing is fabricated and it's all non-commercial.
It's more like a logistics operation. The terrains are
dedicated, long-term, and fenced. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Industrial=warehouse, that's a step too far for me, and the
type of storage used or the exact contents of the piles is not
my concern. Just tagging the duck.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Out of all the industrial=* values, depot fits best, but
it's tainted by a previous proposal which said that depot is
about vehicles and such. So I have to come up with a new one.
I think industrial=soil_exchange would tag the duck. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Probably there is a better term than soil, one that also
may include sand and gravel. </div>
<div><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Vr gr Peter Elderson</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op di 18 mei 2021 om 21:43
schreef Bert -Araali- Van Opstal <<a
href="mailto:bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 18/05/2021 17:53, Peter Elderson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Bert -Araali- Van Opstal <<a
href="mailto:bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><font face="Verdana">I tag them as
man_made=bunker_silo (<a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dbunker_silo"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dbunker_silo</a>)
and content=* (values like sand, gravel, salt
etc...)</font> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><font face="Verdana">Combine with
landuse=commercial for the ones at depots for
sale or landuse=industrial or
landuse=construction for the piles not for
sale to the general public. <br>
I know the wiki says these are for agriculture
but it's easy to extend (wiki) for other
purposes. Bunker silos don't necessarily have
3 walls to contain the bulk material, as in
your example I can't recognise any but
essentially they are the same thing and serve
the same purpose. Some have ditches around
them or are pits, with the same purpose of
containment and additionally collecting
run-off in wet conditions. <br>
Introducing another landuse or man_made tag
seems ambiguous to me, especially using
stockpile as some might be empty short or long
term and then it would be to be defined as a
pile or stock_pile.<br>
Using the man_made tag is easy as they can be
easily mapped and incorporated in all kinds of
larger facilties let it be depots, factories,
hardware stores, construction sites or just
along roads as maintenance stock depots.</font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bunker silo could be stretched to include these
piles of bulk material. But they are formed on the
terrain as needed, for different bulk materials. So
I can't pinpoint and tag individual bunker silo's,
and I can't tag the contents. That's not necessarily
a problem, but again, stretching thngs. <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Sure but you could contain all the piles into one area or
apply it to the containing polygon which might have a
landuse. It allows for any level of detail as you are able
or willing to apply. In many cases, like f.i. for hazardous
materials, a watertight seal is applied to the surface, with
different piles, sometimes different materials all stored on
the same slab. Some have water catchment drains around it.
All of this can be mapped with existent tags, like
surface=concrete etc... without becoming specific about the
individual piles or their contents. Just dependent on your
preference for level of detail and local knowledge.
man_made=bunker_silo is been used 32 234 x, both in
agriculture as in industrial or commercial use.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>As for the landuse, it's not commercial or
industrial, and the land itself is not a
construction site. Maybe industrial could be
stretched to include </div>
<div>common storage for various bulk materials for
various current and future municipal projects in the
municipal area? <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
In your specific case it's not, but these piles appear on
all kinds of different landuse. So it seams obvious to me
not to use or create a new landuse value for such a specific
case as we would end up with landuse=somethingnew
overlapping or puzzled into other landuses, either on macro
or micro scale. For your specific case it seems to me
landuse=industrial is the most feasible. Don't use
landuse=depot. Since last year (253 uses so far) the
industrial=storage tag is used, even discussed briefly on <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:industrial"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:industrial</a>.
It is meant to distinguish warehouses which are considered
in most cases as storage in buildings, from open air
storage. Not documented yet but in use for similar cases.<br>
<p>So I would suggest a general tagging as:</p>
<p>landuse=industrial, (other landuses are possible but not
combined with industrial=*)<br>
industrial=storage</p>
<p>Add additional attributes if known like:<br>
content=* (could be multiple ; separated values or a group
name like road construction bulk material...)<br>
man_made=bunker_silo could be optional but I would
recommend it for uniformity in any case for such an area
even if it has no special storage provisions for reasons
that it is easy to recognise even if the pile is "used up"
and underlying soil might be contaminated. This allows it
to be used also for smaller stockpiles f.i. gravel stocks
for use in winter in mountainous areas, stockpiles of clay
gravel mixes to repair potholes like often seen in Africa
along roads etc... By the way it even renders fine in
carto (darker pink), but we don't map for the...<br>
owner=*, operator=* etc....</p>
<p>If you have the information or field survey smaller areas
and details can be provided on overlapping areas or
polygons which are tagged with:</p>
<p>if the area contains a floor use surface=*,<br>
wall, retaining wall or dyke for containment<br>
ditches</p>
<p>The man_made=mound (1298 uses) is also in use but not
documented and very locally used mostly in Turkey. Could
be considered as an alternative if no provisions at all
are present. I prefer to use a single tagging scheme for
the same feature so don't recommend it's use.<br>
</p>
<p>In these cases the man_made=bunker_silo should be applied
to the detailed area, not the containing landuse.<br>
See an example of such a pile next to a major road in
Africa here: <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/0.09120/32.49531"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/0.09120/32.49531</a><br>
</p>
<p>Greetings,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Bert Araali<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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